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Dainis
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   Posted 12/5/2005 12:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi,

I'm writing a free tutorial and review for Finale NotePad 2006 at
www.music-composition-studio.com/finale-notepad-2006-review-and-tutorial.html

Although I use the commercial version of Finale (OK, version 2004, but still... :p ), I figured it would be nice for folks to have a procedure online that would allow them to get a feel for Finale NotePad and its capabilities.

I decided to write instructions for notating a song with piano accompaniment. In the near future, I will likely post instructions for how to make a lead sheet using NotePad. I'm trying to make the procedure "multi-purpose," and I'm "reviewing" the application as I go.

I ran into a little problem, though. As described in the procedure, the stems in layers 3 and 4 don't seem to be behaving appropriately for me. They don't automatically go up or down the way layers 1 and 2 do. A workaround would be to use layers 1&2 for sop alto, and then layers 1&2 again for ten bass...basically making layers 1 & 2 the only really usable layers in Finale NotePad, if one is writing multiple "voices" in one staff.

Looking forward to your suggestions,
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: http://www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

Post Edited (Dainis) : 12/9/2005 5:09:33 PM (GMT-6)

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 12/5/2005 1:37 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You're talking about a default setting. However, you can still manually flip the stems using the L key, so it is not a hopeless (or should I say impossible) situation.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Dainis
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   Posted 12/5/2005 7:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Aha!

I'll try that...

Also, is it OK for me to use snapshots of the application on my website? Should I ask Finale? I think writing a free procedure/commentary falls under some kind of "critique" law. Also, I don't see why Finale would have anything against it, but I will express my honest opinion at my site. Eventually, I will be reviewing other composition tools, so it would be useful to "get my arms around" the legal issues involved...

Thanks!
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: http://www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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Dainis
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   Posted 12/6/2005 2:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Pressing "l" is working! OK!

I wonder what the fastest way to select notes in NotePad is...

All the best!
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: http://www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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Tyler
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   Posted 12/6/2005 10:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If you're writing a tutorial on using NotePad, the folks in customer support will thank you if you mention that the standard way of writing for SA on one staff and TB on the second is using layers 1 and 2 for both staves. I used to see a lot of user files that had stem direction problems because they misunderstood the purpose for layers 3 and 4 - it seems natural for vocal music writers to assume they are supposed to line up with the 4 voice parts.

Regarding screenshots, you should be fine. You're not using them for a commercial purpose (and even if you were I'm not sure there would be a problem). This is done all the time - from posts on this forum to reviews and tutorials on other sites.


Windows XP, all updates
 

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Tyler
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   Posted 12/6/2005 10:46 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dainis said...
Pressing "l" is working! OK!

I wonder what the fastest way to select notes in NotePad is...

All the best!
Dainis


When you're in Simple Entry, ctrl+click them.


Windows XP, all updates
 

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Dainis
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   Posted 12/9/2005 7:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Great!

I'm moving along in my tutorial/review, and I'm curious about:

1) What "rules" does Finale apply for stem direction? Is it just center line down, all above down, all below up?
2) Can one create grace notes in NotePad
3) Stem length seems to be funky. When notes appear with flags, they are the right length. In certain situations, notes without flags have stems that are too short.

Thanks for all of your help.

Cheers!
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: http://www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

Post Edited (Dainis) : 12/10/2005 5:21:48 AM (GMT-6)

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Dainis
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   Posted 12/11/2005 5:43 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tyler,

You mentioned "...because they misunderstood the purpose for layers 3 and 4"

What would the purpose of layers 3 and 4 be? I've gravitated to layers 1&2 only per staff for 4 part writing in the production version of Finale, but then...I can't really think of wht the other layers would be for...

...maybe they are for situations when one has 3 or 4 parts on one staff?

Still working on #1-3 above...

Cheers all and thanks for your support!
--Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: http://www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 12/11/2005 8:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dainis said...
...What would the purpose of layers 3 and 4 be? I've gravitated to layers 1&2 only per staff for 4 part writing in the production version of Finale, but then...I can't really think of wht the other layers would be for...


Indeed, you won't often need three or four layers to get the layout right.

But Layer 3 and Layer 4 can often be useful for hidden playback notes (unfortunately, you can't create hidden notes with NotePad).

Peter
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Jeannie
'Tis Herself - I have the tee shirt to prove it!



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   Posted 12/11/2005 9:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
NotePad, like PrintMusic, etc., is literally a stripped down version of Finale; for the most part, it was made by stripping features from the parent program. Most likely, certain elements that were useful in Finale often carry over so files created in Finale will properly playback, be seen on screen, and print from NotePad. I assume this is the case for layers 3 and 4 (or the programmers forgot or found it too inconvenient to eliminate them). I would suggest just advising people reading your tutorial to use only layers 1 and 2 on each staff to assure correct stem direction. I use PrintMusic 2004 and have found that the only time I ever use layer 3 is to attach a chord, lyrics, expression, etc., where I otherwise do not have a note or rest and that involves creating hidden rests, something, as Peter pointed out, NotePad doesn't have the capability to do.

I fooled around with NotePad 2005 (I'm scared of all the 2006 products after an unhappy experience with PrintMusic 2006, which I returned, and because of all the problems some people seem to be having with them) to try and determine the rules for stem direction. Very basically, center line note stems and above point down, notes below the centerline will point up. Generally speaking, if the majority of notes on a single stem are centerline and above, the stem points down unless one has a wild note below the first leger below the staff, in which case the stem will reverse. If the majority of the notes on a stem are below the center line, the stem will point up unless a wild note above the top line is introduced, in which case the stem will point down. Weird. Beams will affect the point of stem direction change, the key seeming to be where the majority of the notes on the beam are located. It gets complicated in a hurry. Fortunately, one can make and break beams in Notepad using the "/" key and flip stems using the "L" key, same as in most, if not all, other Finale programs.

Stem length of unflagged notes is affected by beaming and by note position on the staff (stems hanging over a staff tend to be shorter). As far as I know, one cannot adjust stem length in NotePad.

As far as I know, one cannot create grace notes in NotePad.


Jeannie
 

Guild of the Common Chaps http://home.earthlink.net/~chapbooks/

 

Muses Guild http://musesguild.tripod.com/index.htm

 

PrintMusic 2004 (ex-user of the buggy PM 2006), XP Home

Post Edited (Jeannie) : 12/11/2005 7:41:59 AM (GMT-6)

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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 12/11/2005 11:35 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This example using Layers 1, 2 and 3 was created in NotePad 2006.
As you can see, there might be a few cases where it could be useful to have more than two layers, even in NotePad.

Peter

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Jeannie
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   Posted 12/11/2005 4:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter, could you please attach a screen shot of your example for those of us who do not have anything in 2006? I would really like to see where a third layer would be of use in NotePad.


Jeannie
 

Guild of the Common Chaps http://home.earthlink.net/~chapbooks/

 

Muses Guild http://musesguild.tripod.com/index.htm

 

PrintMusic 2004 (ex-user of the buggy PM 2006), XP Home

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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 12/11/2005 6:55 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jeannie,

Here is the very same example, in 2004 format.

Peter

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Jeannie
'Tis Herself - I have the tee shirt to prove it!



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   Posted 12/12/2005 10:52 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter Thomsen said...
Jeannie,

Here is the very same example, in 2004 format.

Peter
Thanks, Peter. Very enlightening. I had to stare at it a while trying to figure out what was going on since I'm color blind and I had trouble seeing the difference between layers 2 and 3. Once I flipped a couple of stems in layer 3 it became a "duh!"
 
I generally try to have no more than two voices (I only work with choral arrangements but it would apply as well with other instruments) on a staff to keep things easier to read. about the only exception I ever make is if I want to split a voice for a short while to fill out a chord or give it a solid bottom, in which case I just put both notes on the same staff. I have this quare obsession with trying to make things easier to read (probably because I don't read all that well myself).
 


Jeannie
 

Guild of the Common Chaps http://home.earthlink.net/~chapbooks/

 

Muses Guild http://musesguild.tripod.com/index.htm

 

PrintMusic 2004 (ex-user of the buggy PM 2006), XP Home

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Dainis
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   Posted 2/6/2006 10:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi again, my wife and I moved into a new place...the move and the holidays kept me offline for a while...

The tutorial is coming along, and I think I might just write the simplest version of a piano score, just to show what Notepad can do. Maybe NotePad can work for making lead sheets.

Does anyone have any experience in what kind of sheet music one can create in Notepad and get a professional result?

Peter, I posted your the three layer example out at www.music-composition-studio.com/using-three-layers-in-finale.html, and I made an adjustment to it. Maybe that's how you had the stem direction in your version of Finale, but in opening it with 2004, the stem direction changed...it's possible. Otherwise, I'd love to know what you think about the stem direction change I made to your example.

Peter, if you visit the page I mentioned, then you'll see that I tried to create a hidden playback note. I also gave that hidden playback note a separate instrument. The low "a" in my example, in measure 4 on beat 1 (written as an 8th note, blending into a tied whole note), won't play. If I change the note in Layer 1, it plays. Is Finale checking whether it's the same note?

Kind of goofy...any suggestions?

From Jeannie: "As far as I know, one cannot adjust stem length in NotePad." My reply:

:-(

Thanks for your great replies!
--Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

Post Edited (Dainis) : 2/6/2006 9:28:14 AM (GMT-6)

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Dainis
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   Posted 2/9/2006 7:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yo ho, all! Here's another issue. I copied and pasted some music with lyrics while writing my Notepad Review/Tutorial. Well, when I edited the copied lyrics, the previous lyrics were overwritten. What a bummer.

Here are a few ideas.

1) Erase the lyrics, copy just the music, then input the lyrics over the coped notes. Maybe that will allow for multiple lyrics on copied notes?
2) Get into Notepad's "underwear" and figure out what the file is called that stores lyrics and try to manipulate something there (sounds "dangerous...oooh!")

Any ideas?

Cheers!
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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Jeannie
'Tis Herself - I have the tee shirt to prove it!



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   Posted 2/9/2006 12:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This issue seems to be a bug that crept in with 2006. It wasn't a problem in earlier versions unless you used highlight and drag.


Jeannie
 

Guild of the Common Chaps http://home.earthlink.net/~chapbooks/

 

Muses Guild http://musesguild.tripod.com/index.htm

 

PrintMusic 2004 (ex-user of the buggy PM 2006), XP Home

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Carla @ MakeMusic
MakeMusic



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   Posted 2/9/2006 3:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No, this isn't new. He used highlight and drag, not copy and paste - follow his link to the review.

If you drag-copy, you are creating a clone of the lyrics that are linked to each other.
If you copy-paste via the clipboard (Ctl-C, Ctl-V), you are creating a copy of the lyrics and they are independent of each other.

Unfortunately, you can't really "unlink" the lyrics in Notepad or PrintMusic. I would clear the copied music and re-copy it via the clipboard instead.


-Carla

MakeMusic, Inc.

These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly at http://support.makemusic.com or call 952-937-9703.

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Dainis
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   Posted 2/10/2006 11:52 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks Jeannie and Carla,

Carla, I quoted you over at www.music-composition-studio.com/finale-notepad-2006-review-and-tutorial-page-03.html, and at the bottom of the page, you'll see that I bumped into another Notepad glitch. I was on page 3 of my score...and all I was going to do was 3 pages...and a measure just bunched up and stayed that way on me.

I can't figure out a way to unsquish the measure in Notepad. Even tried Finale's production keyboard shortcuts (pressing "3").

Any tips, or have I maxed out Notepad?

All the best!
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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Jeannie
'Tis Herself - I have the tee shirt to prove it!



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   Posted 2/10/2006 1:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Carla @ MakeMusic said...
No, this isn't new. He used highlight and drag, not copy and paste - follow his link to the review.

If you drag-copy, you are creating a clone of the lyrics that are linked to each other.
If you copy-paste via the clipboard (Ctl-C, Ctl-V), you are creating a copy of the lyrics and they are independent of each other.

Unfortunately, you can't really "unlink" the lyrics in Notepad or PrintMusic. I would clear the copied music and re-copy it via the clipboard instead.

Carla, I assumed Dainis did use copy and paste when he said he did. I also assumed that Notepad 2006 would have the same problems PrintMusic 2006. Both assumptions were wrong. Sorry about that.
 
I would have verified it but for some strange reason, my copy of Notepad 2006 went all funky on me (either my or my computer's fault) and wouldn't open so I had to let my computer redownload it last night while I was at work (I'm on an unbelievably slow dial-up; I think it's two tin cans and a string). I checked it out a little while ago when I got home and a true copy and paste (not highlight and drag) do not link the the lyrics to each other, unlike what happens in PrintMusic 2006.
 
Dainis, to avoid the problem you had, you need to use the clipboard, either from the keyboard as Carla suggests, or by going into Mass Edit, highlighting what you want copied, clicking on Edit at the top of the screen and clicking on Copy. Then highlight a block of measures (the same number you copied) where you want to paste what you copied, click on Edit again, and click on Paste.
 


Jeannie
 

Guild of the Common Chaps http://home.earthlink.net/~chapbooks/

 

Muses Guild http://musesguild.tripod.com/index.htm

 

PrintMusic 2004 (ex-user of the buggy PM 2006), XP Home

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klavis
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   Posted 2/10/2006 4:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jeannie said...
... I checked it out a little while ago when I got home and a true copy and paste (not highlight and drag) do not link the the lyrics to each other, unlike what happens in PrintMusic 2006...
i just tried both these methods in printmusic 2006 (using the default document), out of curiosity, and the copy and paste method did not seem to link the lyrics together... maybe you could test it again on your demo version to double-check?


PrintMusic 2006, Windows ME

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Jeannie
'Tis Herself - I have the tee shirt to prove it!



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   Posted 2/10/2006 11:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
klavis said...
Jeannie said...
... I checked it out a little while ago when I got home and a true copy and paste (not highlight and drag) do not link the the lyrics to each other, unlike what happens in PrintMusic 2006...
i just tried both these methods in printmusic 2006 (using the default document), out of curiosity, and the copy and paste method did not seem to link the lyrics together... maybe you could test it again on your demo version to double-check?

I deleted my demo of PM 2006 a while back. I had bought PM 2006 on disk when it first came out and was so disappointed with it, I sent it back. Later on down the road, I became frustrated with PM 2004 being logy and locking up on occasional files I was updating, so I downloaded the demo of PM 2006 (which took forever on my pokey dial-up) to see if a report of improved stability in PM 2006 was true, especially since Notepad 2006 was out and could be used to get around the bug of unchangable lyric fonts (the death knell for 2006 as far as I was concerned). PM 2006 was much more stable.
 
I was ready to blame 2006 for corrupting my computer and causing the frequent locking up behavior in 2004 I had been experiencing that had only occurred before I installed 2006 until someone mentioned in another thread that they always rebooted their computer before opening Finale to avoid a similar problem. Coincidentally, around the same time I installed 2006, I had started leaving my computer on all of the time instead of hibernating it between sessions with frequent shutdowns to reset everything. None of my other applications experienced problems from my leaving the computer on so I never suspected it as a possible cause for the sudden increased instability of PM 2004. I started doing a shutdown and restart before working on older files in PM 2004 and the previously logy and lock up prone files started behaving much better. I've had only one lock up since I started doing that.
 
Since stability was no longer a problem, I saw no advantage to dealing with or working around the bugs in PM 2006 so I deleted it from my machine. Since the download takes 14 hours on my unbelievably pokey dial-up, I do not really want to download it again. However, in response to another thread where the problem was reported, before I sent 2006 to that great trashcan in the cyber-sky, I did check out the lyric-copy problem , comparing the results wiith PM 2004, by creating a file in each version with some lyrics that I highlighted and dragged, copied and pasted (using the menus rather than the keyboard shortcuts - I don't use keyboard shortcuts often enough to remember them so I don't bother), and copied and inserted. In both 2004 and 2006, copy and drag resulted in the "cloning problem." In 2004, copy and paste and copy and insert didn't have the problem. In 2006, copy and insert still didn't have the "cloning problem" but copy and paste did. I went through the checking process twice just to make sure senility wasn't a factor.
 
Interesting (maybe) side note: someone expressed a concern that one unethically could get around the 30 day time limit for saving and printing from the 2006 demo by just deleting it and redownloading it. I t doesn't happen that way. Apparently, PM plants something somewhere (not in the cookies; I checked there) on one's computer with a date that will prevent that. When I downloaded the demo, printing and saving were already disabled (mutter, mutter, mutter) (don't go there, Zuill ;-) ).
 


Jeannie
 

Guild of the Common Chaps http://home.earthlink.net/~chapbooks/

 

Muses Guild http://musesguild.tripod.com/index.htm

 

PrintMusic 2004 (ex-user of the buggy PM 2006), XP Home

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Dainis
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   Posted 2/11/2006 5:07 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks all!

We've gotten around the "cloning problem," and I have a "squished music" problem now, and I think I'm going to try something...

Jeannie...although I am taking measures to keep my graphics sizes small, I will be working on further reducing the file sizes of the graphics in my tutorial/review; however, that will take place after I'm "done" with the whole thing. So for now, I have to apologize for the long wait times you must be experiencing at music-composition-studio.com.

Best,
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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Dainis
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   Posted 2/11/2006 5:14 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ha!

I copied some music into the squished measure and now it's OK!

This is really nice. It looks like I'll be able to help people notate songs and simple arrangements in Notepad...especially since we're "wringing out" the bugs in this discussion.

Thanks again,
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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Dainis
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   Posted 2/11/2006 7:06 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Looks like adding measures applies "music spacing" and updates the page layout.

Helps get rid of squished measures...I'm updating my review/tutorial as I go...

Cheers!
Dainis


I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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