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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows > Opening newer mus. files in old versions of finale... | Forum Quick Jump
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max05233157
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 5
| Posted 10/25/2009 11:55 AM (GMT -5) |   | Hey everyone, I recently tried out finale 2010 and decided I didn't like it because it had major performance issues with my computer. So I installed 2009 again, but I cant open some of the files I made in 2010. It gives me an error saying "this document was made with a newer version of finale". Any help?  | | Back to Top | |
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Michael Good
MusicXML Maven
Date Joined May 2000
Total Posts : 1033
| Posted 10/25/2009 2:56 PM (GMT -5) | |
N. Grossingink said...
XML doesn't come close, although many members of this forum have said that it works dang near perfectly. I'm guessing that you need to purchase the full XML plugin, but nowhere in the Finale documentation can you find the limitations of the version included with Finale. What are you finding "doesn't come close"? What version of Finale are you trying to import into? We are always interested in learning how we can improve the quality of MusicXML transfers between different versions of Finale.
The big advantage for the Dolet 5 for Finale plug-in comes in importing into the older version of Finale, since you get years worth of new features and bug fixes compared to what was built into Finale (1 year for Finale 2009, 3 years for Finale 2007, etc.). We document the differences between Dolet 5 for Finale and the built-in MusicXML in Finale 2010a at:
Importing MusicXML into Finale 2003 and earlier will lose formatting due to limitations in the Finale plug-in developer kit in those versions. But from Finale 2004 on things should work very well. You don't get 100% completeness, but you do not get that in Sibelius's saving as earlier versions either.
Michael Good Recordare LLC
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Jeannie
'Tis Herself - I have the tee shirt to prove it!
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1838
| Posted 10/26/2009 3:32 AM (GMT -5) | |
Davidmorehead said...
I always do a small project (that isn't very important) on a new version before I trust it enough to save my older files in the newer format. Makemusic should try to allow us to go back at least one version.
Being the paranoid old bi...broad I am, I always copy my old folders to new ones and use them in the new version. That way, if the new version doesn't pan out, I still have the old files intact. I never do anything extensive or important in the new version until I'm confident it will work out.
When doing anything more than a minor tweak in a file created in the version I'm using, I work with a copy just in case something goes horribly wrong (it's rare but when it happens, it could be devastating if I didn't have the original to fall back on). I also don't bother to save my files to the newer version until I actually need to, mostly because I'm lazy.
Jeannie
Allegro 2005, Allegro 2007, XP Pro Post Edited (Jeannie) : 10/26/2009 2:38:19 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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gogreen
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 362
| Posted 10/26/2009 9:53 AM (GMT -5) | | Does the same apply to .clp files?
Arthur J. Michaels
Finale 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007c.r2 (using 2007c.r2)
P4, 3.00 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, SB Audigy 2, Windows XP SP3, Garritan CoMB
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QcCowboy
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 2902
| Posted 10/26/2009 10:12 AM (GMT -5) | | N. Grossingink said...
XML doesn't come close, although many members of this forum have said that it works dang near perfectly. I'm guessing that you need to purchase the full XML plugin, but nowhere in the Finale documentation can you find the limitations of the version included with Finale.
N.
I am also curious about this "doesn't come close" comment.
I've used the included Music XML function (I never bought the "full XML Plugin", I have no regular need for it), and it HAS worked perfectly. Surprisingly perfectly, actually. The only thing that was not copied backwards was playback settings, which are not, in and of themselves, part of the graphical element of the notation file, so I didn't expect those to follow.
Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2010
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010
Full GPO (Kontakt), GPO 4 (Aria), Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello, Garritan Concert and Marching Band
Win XP
Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator
Post Edited (QcCowboy) : 10/26/2009 9:30:45 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 10/26/2009 10:25 AM (GMT -5) | |
QcCowboy said...
N. Grossingink said...
XML doesn't come close, although many members of this forum have said that it works dang near perfectly. I'm guessing that you need to purchase the full XML plugin, but nowhere in the Finale documentation can you find the limitations of the version included with Finale.
N. I am also curious about this "doesn't come close" comment. I've used the included Music XML function (I never bought the "full XML Plugin", I have no regular need for it), and it HAS worked perfectly. Surprisingly perfectly, actually. The only thing that was not copied backwards was playback settings, which are not, in and of themselves, part of the graphical element of the notation file, so I didn't expect those to follow.
Further to Michel's point, it has even been suggested that a cycle of "save as XML, load XML" is one way out of the occasional garbage build-up than can occur in files which have been worked on and saved/loaded a great number of times - and I can confirm this works reasonably well!
Brian
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gogreen
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 362
| Posted 10/26/2009 11:18 AM (GMT -5) | | You can clean up files and prevent some problems also by clicking Documents--File Check--File Maintenance. At least in F2007.
Arthur J. Michaels
Finale 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007c.r2 (using 2007c.r2)
P4, 3.00 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, SB Audigy 2, Windows XP SP3, Garritan CoMB
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 10/26/2009 1:31 PM (GMT -5) | |
gogreen said...You can clean up files and prevent some problems also by clicking Documents--File Check-- File Maintenance. At least in F2007.
The same option exists in 2005b - but as I've documented before, it actually misses a lot of stuff which slowly accumulates over time, and can never be stripped out again. Moreover, one former MM employee went as far as telling me it was "misuse" of this feature to call it regularly before saving files, and that this option only existed to fix some esoteric bug when loading files from earlier version of Finale, or somesuch - go figure!
Anyway, such imponderables apart, the fact remains that File Maintenance is at best a partial solution, and Finale files will slowly accumulate things like orphaned expressions, curves, and so on, especially if a lot of use is made of cut, paste, copy, drag and drop operations.
Not only is it easy to demonstrate, if your copy of Finale still has an "ETF" save option, you can actually see this garbage, in the form of dozens of duplicated text expressions and suchlike that otherwise do not appear in your score - and of which File Maintenance is completely unaware!
A round-trip through XML, followed by copy/pasting the music back into one of your own templates, is about the only way to leave this garbage behind.
Brian
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warrenbarnett
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 371
| Posted 10/26/2009 8:06 PM (GMT -5) | |
Jeannie said...
When doing anything more than a minor tweak in a file created in the version I'm using, I work with a copy just in case something goes horribly wrong (it's rare but when it happens, it could be devastating if I didn't have the original to fall back on). I also don't bother to save my files to the newer version until I actually need to, mostly because I'm lazy.
I tend to SaveAs everyday that I work on an existing file, and append the current date to the end of the filename. That way I can always go back to some point in imagined time to retreive an old version, if necessary.
Finale 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
Garritan Personal Orchestra
Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0,
Jazz & Big Band
Concert & Marching Band
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 10/27/2009 5:19 AM (GMT -5) | |
warrenbarnett said...
Jeannie said...
When doing anything more than a minor tweak in a file created in the version I'm using, I work with a copy just in case something goes horribly wrong (it's rare but when it happens, it could be devastating if I didn't have the original to fall back on). I also don't bother to save my files to the newer version until I actually need to, mostly because I'm lazy.
I tend to SaveAs everyday that I work on an existing file, and append the current date to the end of the filename. That way I can always go back to some point in imagined time to retreive an old version, if necessary. I do something similar when working on projects, but in my case, it's to ZIP up the entire collection of files once a day into a date-named archive. I find this approach less error-prone when a project comprises (say) 32 separate files, such as was the case for a stage show I worked on last year. It also means that any batch scripts or other automation continue to work without needing internal filename references to be updated. From these ZIPs, I can easily extract one, several, or even all files if I need to revert.
Brian
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michelp
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 951
| Posted 10/27/2009 5:59 PM (GMT -5) | | warrenbarnett said...
I tend to SaveAs everyday that I work on an existing file, and append the current date to the end of the filename. That way I can always go back to some point in imagined time to retreive an old version, if necessary.
Have you checked Dropbox ? You create a Dropbox account (2 Gb are free). It installs a folder on your PC or Mac. Any file or folder you drop in it gets uploaded on the Dropbox website in your protected area. Any updated version (saved) of the files placed in the Dropbox folder gets uploaded instantly. And the best part : if you go to your Dropbox web space, you can see and restore ALL the consecutive versions.
It is so convenient that each time I work on a new Finale score, I place it into the Dropbox folder on my computer, so all the versions get uploaded on the web.
See www.getdropbox.com.
(I have no link with the company, I just want to share a positive experience).
Michel
Finale 2010a, 2009b, 2008b on a MacG5 2x2,5 Gh (2,5 Go RAM) and MacOsX 10.5.8, French azerty kb, Dolet 5. Midi interface : MOTU Midi Express XT. Roland Sound Canvas SC88-vl.Post Edited (michelp) : 10/27/2009 5:03:00 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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warrenbarnett
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 371
| Posted 10/29/2009 9:44 PM (GMT -5) | |
michelp said...
Have you checked Dropbox ? You create a Dropbox account (2 Gb are free). It installs a folder on your PC or Mac. Any file or folder you drop in it gets uploaded on the Dropbox website in your protected area. Any updated version (saved) of the files placed in the Dropbox folder gets uploaded instantly. And the best part : if you go to your Dropbox web space, you can see and restore ALL the consecutive versions. It is so convenient that each time I work on a new Finale score, I place it into the Dropbox folder on my computer, so all the versions get uploaded on the web. See www.getdropbox.com. (I have no link with the company, I just want to share a positive experience). That IS a good idea for much more than just Finale files. I will check it out. I still like to identify everything with my own datecode though. Easy to spot the files at a glance.
Warren Barnett
Finale 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
Garritan Personal Orchestra
Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0,
Jazz & Big Band
Concert & Marching Band
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Scott H. MakeMusic
Forum Moderator
Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 508
| Posted 10/30/2009 7:44 AM (GMT -5) | | Saffron said...gogreen said...
You can clean up files and prevent some problems also by clicking Documents--File Check--. At least in F2007.
The same option exists in 2005b - but as I've documented before, <FONT color=blue> it actually misses a lot of stuff which slowly accumulates over time, and can never be stripped out again. Moreover, one former MM employee went as far as telling me it was " misuse" of this feature to call it regularly before saving files, and that this option only existed to fix some esoteric bug when loading files from earlier version of Finale, or somesuch - go figure!
That is interesting that you were told that, Brian. I use this all the time if I am dealing with a much older file, maybe a file that as been "passed around" in email, and gone from Mac to Win alot, or if the file has had alot added and then removed from it and it is starting to act "funky".
Scott Hirsch
MakeMusic Forum Assistance
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iMac 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB RAM OS X 10.5.7
MacBook 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB RAM OS X 10.6
Finale 2005-2010
Kontakt 2,3
Tapspace Virtual Drumline 2.5.1
Zero-G Nostalgia
Garritan Personal Orchestra
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 10/30/2009 10:09 AM (GMT -5) | |
Scott H. MakeMusic said...
Saffron said...
gogreen said...
You can clean up files and prevent some problems also by clicking Documents--File Check--. At least in F2007.
The same option exists in 2005b - but as I've documented before, <FONT color=blue> it actually misses a lot of stuff which slowly accumulates over time, and can never be stripped out again. Moreover, one former MM employee went as far as telling me it was " misuse" of this feature to call it regularly before saving files, and that this option only existed to fix some esoteric bug when loading files from earlier version of Finale, or somesuch - go figure! That is interesting that you were told that, Brian. I use this all the time if I am dealing with a much older file, maybe a file that as been "passed around" in email, and gone from Mac to Win alot, or if the file has had alot added and then removed from it and it is starting to act "funky".
Well, I wouldn't want to name names, so suffice it to say it's someone I've been known occasionally(!) to disagree with on this forum - and his name does not beqin with "Q" or "R"! :-)
And yes, I use this option as part of my "putting a file to bed" at the end of the day, after "update score" and "apply note spacing".
Brian
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warrenbarnett
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 371
| Posted 10/30/2009 10:06 PM (GMT -5) | |
Wiggy said...
warrenbarnett said...
That IS a good idea for much more than just Finale files. I will check it out. I still like to identify everything with my own datecode though. Easy to spot the files at a glance. I never understand why people put the date in a filename. The creation and modification dates are already stored as metadata in the file system. Any good backup system should allow you access to previous versions of the same file, as each snapshot of the disk is taken. (Apple's Time Machine backup feature in OS X is fantastic, and I'd be surprised if there wasn't some similar third-party software for Windows.)
You are assuming a couple of things here. You are assuming that I am adding the date to the filename just for backup purposes. I add the date for several reasons, one being that I send recordings to players so that they have rehearsal play-alongs, both individual instrument and full charts. If the parts get changed, I can change the recordings to reflect the change date. But if there were cuts in the music such as shortening the performance time or adding a transition, I like to be able to go back to the longer versions if I wish to enjoy them the way they were originally written. And sometimes the changes get taken back out, and some original parts get put back in, but not all, etc, etc.
I don't use a "Backup Program". I much prefer to make copies of specific folders and save them on a separate hard drive. Just my preference. It's just the way that I like to do it. I have several backup programs that I could use, most of which came as part of some bundle or CD/DVD purchase, but I choose not to. At least I make copies, unlike so many people who don't.
Just because the file system says that I last altered a file on April 1st, it doesn't tell me that it was the February 1st version that I just went into to make a few minor adjustments, or fix an error. I still probably want it to say February 1st. If I were to rely on a backup retreival system, I might get the January 1st version, because it was last altered on February 1st.
Since I don't necessarily backup all my files every day, if I manage to totally bugger up a file because I fell asleep while copying and pasting (trust me, I have done it when staying up far to long to play on Finale) and end up with a gazillion pastes that I can't undo, I may want to go back to yesterday's version. Or sometimes you paste in something and didn't notice that you overlooked what you pasted over, and then continued, and saved, and auto saved and saved .bak all of which overwrite the previous .asv or .bak, then at least I can easily open yesterday's file and copy and paste (hopefully without nodding off).
There are lots of reasons to SaveAs with the current date, or current time, or current revision level, or operating sytem version, or all of the above. It all depends upon what you are writing, how often it gets modified (major changes), or your personal preferences.
Finale 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
Garritan Personal Orchestra
Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0,
Jazz & Big Band
Concert & Marching Band
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