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PeterQD
Win Fin v2 - 2009

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 507

Posted 10/28/2009 5:37 AM (GMT -5)

Another question about my trombone quartet please.

There are three repeated sections in this piece with first time bars 27, 17 and 12 measures long. I want to extend the top lines of the opening and closing brackets so they join and look like a continuous line. In Scroll View it's easy to nudge the handles to extend the lines but when I go to Page View, the lines just extend off the edges of the paper. The first repeat takes up 4 systems and whatever I try, I can't get the lines to show above the middle two systems. Is there any way to solve this properly or should I just kludge it and draw a custom line? I would have expected Finale to break the lines, as it does with hairpins and slurs.

18 years and still learning...

Post Edited (PeterQD) : 10/28/2009 4:42:53 AM (GMT-5)

Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1500

Posted 10/28/2009 6:43 AM (GMT -5)

My first question would be: why use long repeat endings at all? Surely the use of such devices originated in the need to save paper and ink and long arduous engraving time. Now we have computers and copy/paste, why not make it easier and simpler to read by writing it out in full? (Would also remove the key signature issue you already dealt with ... )

I can see the need for keeping the repeat endings if one is attempting to recreate a historically accurate edition, but since the main purpose of this (if I've understood correctly) is to expedite the reading process, why not make it even simpler?

Gareth J. Green

Fin2010

Core2Duo E8400@3.00GHz; Vista 64-bit; 8Gb RAM; SB X-Fi Extreme Audio, ATI Radeon HD 4650.

Stolichnaya Blue

"Trumpet players have no use for musicianship; it's too much like having a conscience"

"Never take life seriously; no-one gets out alive anyway."

PeterQD
Win Fin v2 - 2009

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 507

Posted 10/28/2009 10:15 AM (GMT -5)

Hm, good thought Gareth, thanks. I could easily copy the measures before each 1st time ending and insert them in front of the 2nd time endings. Two issues come to mind - it looks like people in the past have shortened the piece by skipping two of the first time sections, and that would be difficult written out in full, but I' sure there's a way round it. Secondly it would add 47 measures to the total and I'd like to limit each part to two A4 pages (folded A3), currently 157, so it might mean a fairly hefty size reduction. I think I'll make a judgement on it later when I see how the page layout pans out. I've got all the notes, expressions and smartshapes entered now and I'm just finishing the articulations, so then I'll be on it.

By the way, the piece is "Winter" by Drake Rimmer, published by F. Richardson Ltd, if you know it.

18 years and still learning...

mendoza
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 83

Posted 10/28/2009 4:35 PM (GMT -5)

PeterQD said...
Another question about my trombone quartet please.

... Is there any way to solve this properly or should I just kludge it and draw a custom line? I would have expected Finale to break the lines, as it does with hairpins and slurs.

to my knowledge, no.

My way to handle this bug:

1) create a smart custom line (with the same width as the repeat line)

2) in scroll view, fill the repeat line gap with this custom line

3) this is stable in page view, even if you later move measures

Dein Deutsch ist sehr gut!

Gruesse

Finale 2009b german / Win XP Home / Pentium 4 1.8 GHz / 2 GB RAM / RME Fireface

English is NOT my mother-language

oldtrumpet
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 157

Posted 10/28/2009 5:14 PM (GMT -5)

Peter, This might be what you want.

Using the staff tool, select the staves you wish to include and choose "add a group bracket" from the staff menu. There are choices for bracket styles including "none"
Repeats should now extend to all in the group.

This works for me with Finale 2010, I don't Know what program you are using.

Cheers, -Bob

Bob Morris
West Chester, PA

Finale 2010 - Windows XP Gateway GT5032 also Vista

home.comcast.net/~bob_morris/

www.wcswingkings.com

PeterQD
Win Fin v2 - 2009

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 507

Posted 10/28/2009 6:22 PM (GMT -5)

mendoza said...

My way to handle this bug:

1) create a smart custom line (with the same width as the repeat line)

2) [color=#000000>fill]

3) this is stable in page view, even if you later move measures

Dein Deutsch ist sehr gut!

Danke. Ihr (Dein?) Englisch ist hervorragend!

My wife and I have many friends in Germany. There is one family near Mannheim we've been friends with since 1984 - their name in German is the same as ours in English, so we say we are cousins!

They try to teach me German, but they speak a dialect so it is difficult. We also have friends in Mainz, Marburg, Mannheim and near Stuttgart, mostly made on band trips over the years. :)

I'll try your suggestion - thankyou again.

18 years and still learning...

mendoza
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 83

Posted 10/29/2009 6:43 AM (GMT -5)

PeterQD said...
Danke. Ihr (Dein?) Englisch ist hervorragend!

Of course: Dein !!

Finale 2009b german / Win XP Home / Pentium 4 1.8 GHz / 2 GB RAM / RME Fireface

English is NOT my mother-language

PeterQD
Win Fin v2 - 2009

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 507

Posted 11/1/2009 4:14 PM (GMT -5)

mendoza said...
1) create a smart custom line (with the same width as the repeat line)
2) in scroll view, fill the repeat line gap with this custom line
3) this is stable in page view, even if you later move measures

This works beautifully! At least, it does for the top staff. I need the repeat brackets on the top staff only in the score, but I have to draw the custom line on every staff in order to get them to show in each part. I don't see any way of hiding smartshapes like hidden expressions, and trying to draw a line as an expression extends off the page in Page View, just like a repeat bracket. Extracting parts seems the only option.

18 years and still learning...

Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1500

Posted 11/1/2009 4:41 PM (GMT -5)

PeterQD said...
This works beautifully! At least, it does for the top staff. I need the repeat brackets on the top staff only in the score, but I have to draw the custom line on every staff in order to get them to show in each part. I don't see any way of hiding smartshapes like hidden expressions, and trying to draw a line as an expression extends off the page in Page View, just like a repeat bracket. Extracting parts seems the only option.

Easily done.

1) draw the custom line in the top stave.

2) Copy the custom lne to all the other staves (this can be done in one hit, using the edit filter)

3) select the handles of all the lines - right-click one of them, and check "unlink in all parts"

4) select all handles except that of the custom line on the top staff - right-click one of them, and uncheck "show"

Althought you will still see them (faintly, depending on your settings in Program Options), the custom lines in the score will only print on the top staff, whereas the lines in the linked parts will print in all parts. Some tinkering with line lengths may be necessary in the parts.

Gareth J. Green

Fin2010

Core2Duo E8400@3.00GHz; Vista 64-bit; 8Gb RAM; SB X-Fi Extreme Audio, ATI Radeon HD 4650.

Stolichnaya Blue

"Trumpet players have no use for musicianship; it's too much like having a conscience"

"Never take life seriously; no-one gets out alive anyway."

PeterQD
Win Fin v2 - 2009

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 507

Posted 11/1/2009 5:21 PM (GMT -5)

That does the trick nicely Gareth, thanks! I've never used the "show" feature in right click before, I didn't even know it was there, but now I do I think it's going to be useful. That's about it for this piece, I'll have the parts ready for 1st rehearsal on Wednesday.

18 years and still learning...

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