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Timekeeper
Time Lord
      
Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 271
| Posted 10/31/2009 10:25 PM (GMT -5) |   | Sometimes numbers can be helpful, though. For example, figuring out harmony is much easier to figure a 1-2-5-4-1, than trying to remember each individual scale degree name. Also, TAB works quite well for beginning guitar players, and I still write fingerings in my viola parts when I get into 3rd or 4th, etc positions.
Matthew, Composer, Violist and Guitarist
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Albuquerque, NM, USA
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Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1500
| Posted 11/1/2009 5:59 AM (GMT -5) | |
Tom Williams said...
1123132 11231 7 1123432175671 1
I V I V I IV V I
--aka Yankee Doodle. Your font choice may affect alignment. I was probably able to write that in integers faster than Mike in Simple Mode.  What key is it in? Any you like. It's instantly transposable. Transposible. However it's spelled. If the 1 is a C, 3 indicates E. If 1 is F#, 3 is A#. If the singer needs it in D, I'm ready for that too. It took me a few seconds, and is unambiguous.Thus endeth the lesson, he wrote smugly.
Unambiguous? I don't think so. Assuming I don't actually know the tune, there is nothing to tell me that the 13th note is a semitone lower than the previous note. Logically, I would jump up a major seventh ...
Gareth J. Green
Fin2010
Core2Duo E8400@3.00GHz; Vista 64-bit; 8Gb RAM; SB X-Fi Extreme Audio, ATI Radeon HD 4650.
Stolichnaya Blue
"Trumpet players have no use for musicianship; it's too much like having a conscience"
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QcCowboy
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 2902
| Posted 11/1/2009 9:52 AM (GMT -5) | | Timekeeper said...
Sometimes numbers can be helpful, though. For example, figuring out harmony is much easier to figure a 1-2-5-4-1, than trying to remember each individual scale degree name. Also, TAB works quite well for beginning guitar players, and I still write fingerings in my viola parts when I get into 3rd or 4th, etc positions.
Disingenuous argument, this is.
No one is saying that numbers don't have their place in music (ie: harmonic analysis, fingerings, etc...).
By the way, this is why I prefer the French method, of using Do, Re, Mi, Fa Sol, La, Si.
(in fixed mode. ie: Do is always "C")
But that's a personal preference.
Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2010
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010
Full GPO (Kontakt), GPO 4 (Aria), Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello, Garritan Concert and Marching Band
Win XP
Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator
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Zalman770
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 11/2/2009 3:05 PM (GMT -5) | | Hi,
I'm teaching children who don't necessarily know the the English alphabet but who do know numbers.
I already taught a little bit like this last year for the soprano recorder. The bottom 'c' is a 1, 'd' 2 etc. High C is 8 ; high D a 9 etc.
+ means sharp. - means flat.
Worked to teach them the tunes and get some of them enthusiastic - but obviously not ideal if the intention is for them to become serious musicians (in which case they should learn the abc!).
Thanks for the advice,
Zalman | | Back to Top | |
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Tom Williams
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 167
| Posted 11/3/2009 10:22 PM (GMT -5) | | First of all, Gareth, good call. I actually do use that format when I am transcribing tunes, and you're quite right about the ambiguity, although the rule of thumb is easy: take the closest leap (thus 1 always goes down to 7) unless overridden with an arrow. Since most _songs_involve shortish intervals, the method works.
So "Somewhere" is actually spelled out (in my notes) something like
5 ^4 3 1 6
^6 5 4 3 1 6
7 1 2 3 4 5 3 1
(and so on)
If I need reminders of the rhythm, I usually draw little pitchless notes above 'em...
When I write music, it's with real staves and notes. But for taking simple dictation quickly, it's real hard to beat numbers.
As far as using it for music education, I find it invaluable for ear training. Mapping those arabic numbers to lines-and-spaces is not a very tough process. Bonus: I-IV-V is already a standard way of addressing chords, and so one concept (expressing with numbers) serves both melodic and harmonic ear/brain development.
And Durn, it's fast!
Quiz: what's this one?
51111117255423511712755
51111117255423512121v111
-which I rattled off almost in real time. (Many people prefer Flanders and Swann's performance to Dennis Brain's, which darn near gives the answer away.)
-Tom Williams
PrintMusic 2009, Alesis Fusion, Thinkpad R52 | | Back to Top | |
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Tom Williams
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 167
| Posted 11/4/2009 10:02 PM (GMT -5) | | Brian, you left out inversions, Opus numbers, and even lyrics (e.g., Blue Suede Shoes).
Seriously, though, I use numbers for quick melodic and harmonic dictation and notation, quite sufficient and fast for pop-type tunes (and for that matter, chorales and most other tertian harmony), no staff paper needed. And once the other guy (/gal) understands I-IV-V, he or she can quickly communicate chord progression even if we haven't picked a key that is good for the singer yet.
For _writing_, I use PrintMusic.
Cheers,
-Tom Williams
PrintMusic 2009, Alesis Fusion, Thinkpad R52 | | Back to Top | |
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 11/5/2009 7:18 AM (GMT -5) | |
Tom Williams said...Brian, you left out inversions, Opus numbers, and even lyrics (e.g., Blue Suede Shoes). Seriously, though, I use numbers for quick melodic and harmonic dictation and notation, quite sufficient and fast for pop-type tunes (and for that matter, chorales and most other tertian harmony), no staff paper needed. And once the other guy (/gal) understands I-IV-V, he or she can quickly communicate chord progression even if we haven't picked a key that is good for the singer yet. For _writing_, I use PrintMusic. Cheers,
Good point about the lyrics - Rock Around the Clock and all that! And Opus/BWV/K numbers, etc. It's no wonder so many musicians are mathematicians, and vice versa! 
Brian
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