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Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets



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   Posted 7/15/2010 5:45 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Davidmorehead said...

Add the new expressions shortcuts to smart shapes. (control down arrow to copy to the staff below, etc...) Once you get a crescendo the way you like it on one part, you can copy that to every stave with two keystrokes.

You can, more-or-less, do this already, using Edit Filter: Measure-attached Smart Shapes only, select source measure, Ctrl-Alt-Click target measure, paste vertically 'n' times, or to bottom of score. Granted, bit more than two keystrokes, but could be streamlined with your metatools for edit/copy filters, which I would also like to see.


 
Gareth J. Green
 
Fin2010b
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QcCowboy
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   Posted 7/15/2010 7:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
when drag-applying expressions, Finale should ignore rests.
If I select a measure-column of music, Finale should apply the meta-tool expression I selected ONLY to beats with a note attached.

I normally don't have perfectly square musical entrances on all instruments in my music. Often in an instrumental group, some will start on a certain beat, while others the following beat, or beat-and-a-half. And often, it's every other staff that starts on a different beat. So I can't just drag apply meta-tool expressions without needing to adjust each and every one.

I'd like Finale to realize that a dynamic expression does NOT attach to a rest, but to the very next "real" note .


Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator

Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2011
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010, 2011
GPO 4, Garritan J&BB 3, CoMBand, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello
Xsamples chamber Ensemble
Win XP

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Flint
silly bear



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   Posted 7/15/2010 11:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
QcCowboy said...
when drag-applying expressions, Finale should ignore rests.
If I select a measure-column of music, Finale should apply the meta-tool expression I selected ONLY to beats with a note attached.

I normally don't have perfectly square musical entrances on all instruments in my music. Often in an instrumental group, some will start on a certain beat, while others the following beat, or beat-and-a-half. And often, it's every other staff that starts on a different beat. So I can't just drag apply meta-tool expressions without needing to adjust each and every one.

I'd like Finale to realize that a dynamic expression does NOT attach to a rest, but to the very next "real" note .
Agreed.
 
****
 
I'd like an easy way to line up the endpoints of crescendoes and diminuendoes that doesn't involve having to then fix all the startpoints.
 
Also, the ability to simply cut+paste hairpins (not this cr4p with messing constantly with the Filter).
 
I'd like to see Smart Lines work more like slurs—select a begining note, select an end note... voilà, a perfectly placed tr(b, #, nat, whatever)~~~~~~~~ sign with the last ~~ hanging just past the end note. That'd save me a ton of fiddly time.


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011! using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows Vista 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

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Davidmorehead
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   Posted 7/16/2010 2:03 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Saxophoneguy2001 said...

Also, I was about to make a new topic asking about this cuz searching didn't help much, so I don't know if it's been improved or not, but it'd be nice to have a foolproof quick and easy method of having the playback swing the 16th notes without doing anything that might change the appearance. Any time I work on something that's sort of a funk shuffle or just funk where the 16th notes should swing a little bit, I die a little inside when I hear Finale play them back straight.
Use 8/8 as your time signature and show 4/4. Then apply swing with an expression.


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David Ward
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   Posted 7/16/2010 5:43 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
QcCowboy said...
when drag-applying expressions, Finale should ignore rests.
If I select a measure-column of music, Finale should apply the meta-tool expression I selected ONLY to beats with a note attached.
How might that work with dynamics at the end of hairpins (see screen shot)? As long as other options are left open, what Michel asks for is clearly a very good idea for most situations.


David Ward
http://www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b
Mac 10.6.4
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Peter West
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   Posted 7/16/2010 7:47 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
David, I see your point, but there are situations where the current feature is a better option. For example if you have a chord in the brass where each player starts at a different place so the chord builds up. You can drag apply once then position each one quickly

Also if you want to apply 2 expressions to the same note (eg all strings are sul pont and f). You can only do this if the 2nd drag is not directly over the first, and therefore misses the note. After applying they are all selected so one drag repositions all.

However, not including bars that contain a default rest might be an option


Peter
Music Publishing Services

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Lance Handsome
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   Posted 7/16/2010 8:28 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would like Finale to automatically carry my previous version's preferences as much as they apply to the new version being installed. I hate having to re-setup my toolbars, document settings, program settings, etc. everytime I install a new version of Finale.

Amen, brother! Testify!


Lance

"Score till you're sore and can score no more".

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Lance Handsome
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   Posted 7/16/2010 9:28 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How about a "do again" button? Rather than having to reselect an action, e.g. some kind of Mass Mover operation, select the notes and hit the button. Viola [sic]! The operation is magically applied to the selection.
A command that would cause good music to be written would be welcome, too.


Lance

"Score till you're sore and can score no more".

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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 7/16/2010 10:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
1. I know it's been mentioned before but unicode and fractional type sizes. Also, there are some fairly serious bugs in the font rendering of expressions when using non Windows system fonts, i.e. pretty much anything Adobe makes. I can go into detail but MM knows about this. Since unicode is not supported, no Adobe "Pro" fonts are either and the line spacing is wacky.

2. Ability to set different positioning and type sizes between score and linked parts for Text tool items. A title for example will often not be in the same location and same size in the parts as it is in the score so the user ends up with a score and a score for parts, kind of defeating the purpose of linked parts.

3. Edit Filter "sets" and shortcuts for those sets. When using Edit Filter I often find myself only copying smart shapes and accidentals, or only chord symbols, or everything, etc. It would be a time saver to assign a metatool to an Edit Filter setup and be able to switch without actually having to enter the Edit Filter dialog box.

4. Restore functionality of opaque expressions to what it was in 2008. The attached graphic which shows opaque expressions eliminating barline collisions with chords and 2-bar repeats is exported from Finale 2008, and is not possible to do in 2009 and later versions. If this isn't to be restored, an "erase background" feature like Sibelius has would be very useful.

5. Notation based Implode and Explode instead of MIDI based. These two commands are using MIDI info instead of the actual notation info. Why should this be necessary? Tuplets, dotted rhythms, enharmonics, etc. often are imploded or exploded incorrectly.

6. Maybe this is possible for a 2011 maintenance release but there needs to be some added functionality to the right-click menu of the Staff tool now that it is used to show/hide empty staves instead of optimization. Having to enter the Staff menu for this is an added unnecessary step. A keyboard shortcut would be good too. (Maybe there is already, I haven't messed around with 2011 much.)

7. What's happening with the PDK? Will this be updated? Many of Tobias' plug-ins are pretty essential to my workflow so I'd hate for these to be unavailable in a future version. Something like his Modify/Transfer/Layout is such an incredible timesaver when formatting parts that I would really hate to be able to use that. That feature really should be built into Linked Parts anyway so maybe they could license it and build it directly into the Linked Parts code, not as a plug-in.

8. Likewise with TGTools Copy System Optimization and Shift System Optimization. Since optimization doesn't exist any more there should be a way to copy individual staff positioning edits from page to page. This really should be built into the Staff Tool or Page Layout tool or something.

9. Full screen mode. Adobe Lightroom has a great shortcut that gets rid of all menus, tools, etc. so the whole screen can be used to view photos. It even gets rid of the Windows Taskbar. Something like this would be great for editing with the Selection Tool. Just hit the shortcut and you'd have the maximum amount of space to view your score.

10. Colors. I guess they tried to address the defaults in 2011 by toning down the default colors, but it still looks amateurish and unprofessional to my eye. Since the Selection Tool can edit basically anything anyway, I don't see the point in having blue repeats, etc. by default upon install. I use colors for layers, staff style bars, and to show unlinked items but that's about it, and even then I would like a shortcut to switch everything to black for editing. It's odd, but I guess my eye ends up being drawn to colors and I'll miss something while editing that is completely obvious once I've converted the file to a black and white .pdf. It's also annoying to have to go and change the default colors every time I upgrade. A more logical color scheme or the ability to import the color scheme from the previous version upon install would be nice.

11. I know they just re-did it but the percussion map is still a PITA. Sorry, but it is. There's gotta be a better way to implement this.

12. Patterson Beams/Ross beams. It's time for "correct" beaming to be built into the program. I shouldn't have to run a plug-in for this. Really.

13. The ability to rotate text. The only workaround to currently do this that I know of is with a custom Smart Shape or to import text as a graphic. I haven't needed it that often but the ability to rotate text would come in handy in scores when something needs to be rotated 90 degrees in the margin.

14. It seems about time for a Shape Designer update too. This interface is really dated and clunky.

I'm sure there are a few more I'll think of later.
Fred
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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 7/16/2010 11:03 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fred G. Unn said...
1. I know it's been mentioned before but unicode and fractional type sizes. Also, there are some fairly serious bugs in the font rendering of expressions when using non Windows system fonts, i.e. pretty much anything Adobe makes. I can go into detail but MM knows about this. Since unicode is not supported, no Adobe "Pro" fonts are either and the line spacing is wacky.

I've also called for Unicode and fractional point sizes. However, I've not seen any problem using Adobe Pro openType fonts in Finale.

Fred G. Unn said...
4. Restore functionality of opaque expressions to what it was in 2008. The attached graphic which shows opaque expressions eliminating barline collisions with chords and 2-bar repeats is exported from Finale 2008, and is not possible to do in 2009 and later versions. If this isn't to be restored, an "erase background" feature like Sibelius has would be very useful.

You can still do opaque expressions. Create an expression with an Enclosure, 0 line width, and Enforce minimum width for dimensions.

Fred G. Unn said...
10. Colors. I guess they tried to address the defaults in 2011 by toning down the default colors, but it still looks amateurish and unprofessional to my eye. Since the Selection Tool can edit basically anything anyway, I don't see the point in having blue repeats, etc. by default upon install. I use colors for layers, staff style bars, and to show unlinked items but that's about it, and even then I would like a shortcut to switch everything to black for editing. It's odd, but I guess my eye ends up being drawn to colors and I'll miss something while editing that is completely obvious once I've converted the file to a black and white .pdf. It's also annoying to have to go and change the default colors every time I upgrade. A more logical color scheme or the ability to import the color scheme from the previous version upon install would be nice.

I much prefer the more subdued colours in 2011. But if you don't want any colour, then you can turn them off by deselecting "Use Score Colors". It would be nice to load in your old Program Options, I suppose. Some better way of transferring old settings between versions is needed, as that's my major problem at the moment.


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Post Edited (Wiggy) : 7/16/2010 10:08:44 AM (GMT-5)

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Flint
silly bear



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   Posted 7/16/2010 11:18 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
Fred G. Unn said...
4. Restore functionality of opaque expressions to what it was in 2008. The attached graphic which shows opaque expressions eliminating barline collisions with chords and 2-bar repeats is exported from Finale 2008, and is not possible to do in 2009 and later versions. If this isn't to be restored, an "erase background" feature like Sibelius has would be very useful.

You can still do opaque expressions. Create an expression with an Enclosure, 0 line width, and Enforce minimum width for dimensions.
Like this:

It took about 5 seconds. Select a rectangular enclosure, set height, width, and line width to zero, click the opaque boxes, press okay. Damn simple to do.

EDIT: This was done in Finale 2009, and I can verify readily that it still works this way in 2011.


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011! using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows Vista 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

Post Edited (Flint) : 7/16/2010 10:23:08 AM (GMT-5)


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QcCowboy
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   Posted 7/16/2010 11:18 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fred G. Unn said...

4. Restore functionality of opaque expressions to what it was in 2008. The attached graphic which shows opaque expressions eliminating barline collisions with chords and 2-bar repeats is exported from Finale 2008, and is not possible to do in 2009 and later versions. If this isn't to be restored, an "erase background" feature like Sibelius has would be very useful.



This works perfectly in Finale 2010 and Finale 2011.
As a matter of fact, it works perfectly fine in Finale 2009 as well... what exactly is the problem you are seeing?

Please don't tell me it doesn't work. I just finished an orchestral score and parts where I needed to make extensive use of this feature (something I'd never used before), and the result is more than satisfying.


Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator

Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2011
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010, 2011
GPO 4, Garritan J&BB 3, CoMBand, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello
Xsamples chamber Ensemble
Win XP

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QcCowboy
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   Posted 7/16/2010 11:48 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Since the topic is already in another thread:

1. how about a "resize staff" that includes options for whether or not you want any staff-related items to be resized as well?

2. either this, or have an option in the expression designer whether you want the expression in question to scale with the staff size or not.

(I think I prefer the 2nd option)

For example, a violin and piano piece, the violin staff is, traditionally, set at 75% while the piano is at 100%.
However, you would like expressions that affect the piano staff, such as tempo markings which are generally above the top staff, to be in the right font size (ie: non-reduced).

This would be a nice feature, which would avoid the "work-around" of using fixed font sizes (fixed font sizes also defeat the purpose of having a resizeable page in the first place).


Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator

Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2011
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010, 2011
GPO 4, Garritan J&BB 3, CoMBand, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello
Xsamples chamber Ensemble
Win XP

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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 7/16/2010 1:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry guys, I guess I wasn't clear with the opaque expressions. In 2008 and prior you could use a blank opaque expression to hide a barline behind a chord symbol or 2 bar repeat, as in my attached file in the previous post. I used to use this technique a lot. They changed the drawing order in 2009 and now 2008 and prior files that used that technique to break a barline behind a chord symbol or 2 bar repeat open incorrectly, so I always need to have 2008 installed just to open older files correctly. An opaque expression hiding a barline behind expression text still works fine. It's impossible to create a file in 2011 such as the one from 2008 that I attached earlier unless you use expressions instead of chords or staff styles. Here's what that 2008 file opens as in 2011, which is clearly unplayable.
Fred
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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 7/16/2010 1:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...

However, I've not seen any problem using Adobe Pro openType fonts in Finale.


The line spacing is wacky. Take a title or some text box that's 2 or more lines long. Convert it to an Adobe Pro font. Now the line spacing is off. It's not as noticeable with single lines of text, but it's enough that I'd have to go through and re-proof for collisions if I globally switched to a "Pro" font. Titles would have to use Baseline Shift or Superscript or something for multiple lines of text.

Fred
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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 7/16/2010 1:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
QcCowboy said...
Fred G. Unn said...

4. Restore functionality of opaque expressions to what it was in 2008. The attached graphic which shows opaque expressions eliminating barline collisions with chords and 2-bar repeats is exported from Finale 2008, and is not possible to do in 2009 and later versions. If this isn't to be restored, an "erase background" feature like Sibelius has would be very useful.



This works perfectly in Finale 2010 and Finale 2011.
As a matter of fact, it works perfectly fine in Finale 2009 as well... what exactly is the problem you are seeing?

Please don't tell me it doesn't work. I just finished an orchestral score and parts where I needed to make extensive use of this feature (something I'd never used before), and the result is more than satisfying.


Michel, do you have an example where you used it to eliminate "barline collisions with chords and 2-bar repeats" as I stated in my post? If you do, would you please post an example? I guess I should have been more clear and stated chord symbols but I thought it was clear from the attachment.
Fred
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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 7/16/2010 2:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BTW, the competition breaks the barline behind a 2-bar repeat automatically so this would be a good feature request regardless of the opaque issue.
Fred

Post Edited (Fred G. Unn) : 7/16/2010 1:37:24 PM (GMT-5)


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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 7/16/2010 2:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I don't know why I didn't think of just creating an opaque "2" and editing the positioning so it has the exact same positioning as the 2 in the repeat. Since the drawing order is changed post-2008 it will cover the 2 from the 2-bar repeat perfectly and hide the barline so that's a workaround to that problem anyway. Here's an example. I'll still have to have 2008 installed to correctly display 2008 and prior files though.
Fred

Post Edited (Fred G. Unn) : 7/16/2010 1:52:14 PM (GMT-5)


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Saxophoneguy2001
Music Nerd

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   Posted 7/16/2010 11:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Davidmorehead said...
Saxophoneguy2001 said...


Also, I was about to make a new topic asking about this cuz searching didn't help much, so I don't know if it's been improved or not, but it'd be nice to have a foolproof quick and easy method of having the playback swing the 16th notes without doing anything that might change the appearance. Any time I work on something that's sort of a funk shuffle or just funk where the 16th notes should swing a little bit, I die a little inside when I hear Finale play them back straight.

Use 8/8 as your time signature and show 4/4. Then apply swing with an expression.


As I said in the topic I made, that's what I've been doing, but when I add slash notation for the rhythm section, it shows 8 slashes per measure instead of 4. So not only would it be nice to have an easy way of swinging the 16th notes without having to use a round-about method, but it flat out needs to be fixed because the best and most consistent work-around still causes another problem.
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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 7/18/2010 9:12 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
From my previous post I'll add a 12a) One of the problems w/Patterson Beams is that it screws up many tuplets, resulting in a lot of hand-tweaking. It would be nice to have this automated.

15) A vertical offset setting for slash notation so Maestro character #203 can be used for the large slash. As of 2011 if it is selected in Document Options/Alternate Notation it appears too low in the staff.

16) Correct placement of bracketed tuplets with mixed stems. As of now the bracket goes below the notes for a quarter note tuplet that begins with a rest and has mixed stems. (This is with Default Placement: Stem/Beam side selected.) Correct placement for mixed stems should be above. For quarter note tuplets not beginning with a rest Finale bases the positioning on the stem of the first note without looking to see if stems are mixed or not.

Fred
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Jeannie
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   Posted 7/18/2010 11:35 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Lance Handsome said...
I would like Finale to automatically carry my previous version's preferences as much as they apply to the new version being installed. I hate having to re-setup my toolbars, document settings, program settings, etc. everytime I install a new version of Finale.

Amen, brother! Testify!

I also agree with this suggestion. One of the reasons I haven't installed Finale 2010, besides the steep learning curve that will be involved, especially for the new selection tool, is I do not feel like dealing with having to reset everything.
 
I would like to add that it might be even better if the new version installed with the default settings but had an option to change those settings to the settings in a previous installation. That would allow people to more readily see changes then, with very little effort and if they so choose, fetch the settings from the previous version (a menu one could use to tic individual items on or off would be nice) and apply them to the new version.


Jeannie
 

Allegro 2005, Allegro 2007, Finale 2010 (not yet installed) XP Pro

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Jeannie
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   Posted 7/18/2010 11:55 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Éric Dussault said...
1) Something I am wishing for years now is Finale to draw tapered dashed slurs in the smart shape tool (now all we have is a dashed curved line and I stopped using it because of its poor appearance).
And being there why not having the same for ties (some kind of shortcut in speedy like opt (ctrl)- =)...
I heartily agree with this suggestion although it would be of little to no use for me if limited to Speedy only. Just put it in the Smart Shape menu.
 
It would also be nice if the spacing of the dashed slurs and ties (or the spacing of notes, as now happens with solid ties) would automatically adjust (while retaining the ability for the user to tweak as needed). Here is a portion of a post I made in another thread;
 
...Besides the lack of tapered ends, the length and spacing of the slurs is fixed so the end is frequently too short or just isn't there, depending on the length of the slur or "tie." Once my page layout is completed, I have to go back and adjust the slur and "tie" lengths or tweak measure and note spacing to get things to come out reasonably well looking. And, as Mike also pointed out, playback suffers if using ties created from slurs (although playback is less important to me than the appearance of the printed music).

I haven't even gotten around to installing Finale 2010 yet and wasn't planning on upgrading anytime soon but if MM fixes the dashed slurs and adds true dashed ties, I would be all over that like stink on...dead fish. While somehow tying playback to the presence of lyric and word extensions would be nice, the lack of it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.


Jeannie
 

Allegro 2005, Allegro 2007, Finale 2010 (not yet installed) XP Pro

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msweeney
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   Posted 7/18/2010 9:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'd love dashed crescendo and diminuendo hairpins and ties, just like the dashed slurs that already exist. (I'm told the Sibelius already offers this.)


Michael Sweeney.

www.michaelsweeney.com

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KennethKen
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   Posted 7/19/2010 5:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fred G. Unn said...
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I don't know why I didn't think of just creating an opaque "2" and editing the positioning so it has the exact same positioning as the 2 in the repeat. Since the drawing order is changed post-2008 it will cover the 2 from the 2-bar repeat perfectly and hide the barline so that's a workaround to that problem anyway.
Fred
Will the opaque "2" maintain it's proper position over the barline when respacing occurs?


Windows XP, Finale 2010, Pentium 4, 3GHz, 2GB Ram
Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc.

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Saffron
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   Posted 7/19/2010 5:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Reducing everything to two, simple thoughts:


        1. Automatically space things out to stop printing entities on top of each other

        2. Allow retrospective saving to make upgrading a try-and-review option



BTW - Sibelius has both ...

Brian


 

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