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Patrick O'Keefe
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 36

Posted 7/19/2010 5:36 PM (GMT -5)

I just upgraded to a new PC and went from WinXP to Win7 x64. Before installing my audio card - M-Audio Audiophile 2496 - I wanted to make sure I had everything working with the on-board audio support: Realtek HD Audio.

Everything was fine using the default support until I tried using ASIO4AL with the Realtek. There was no sound out of Finale - the ASIO4ALL console showed no avaliable output device. I had run into an "Only one application at a time" restriction - I had to disable sharing of the sound support and shut down the Window Audio service before Finale would work with ASIO4ALL. Stand-alone GPO4 did not have this problem - it used ASIO4ALL in a shared environment. Sibelius did not have this problem - it used ASIO4ALL in a shared environment (and was also willing to use WASAPI making ASIO less important).

From what I've read this is related to a new way of handling audio in Vista and Win7, but I haven't seen other reports of this problem with Finale. Is there some simple solution for this? Is it related specifically to ASIO4ALL or am I likely to have problems using Finale with the M-Audio ASIO driver?

Patrick O'Keefe
---------------------------------
Win7 x64
Intel i7 930 quad core, 2.80GHz, 12GB
Finale 2011
Sibelius 6
Aria Player 1.02
Garritan Personall Orchestra 4
Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2

Post Edited (Patrick O'Keefe) : 7/19/2010 8:46:30 PM (GMT-5)

Ron.
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 3871

Posted 7/19/2010 5:53 PM (GMT -5)

Doesn't your M-Audio card have an ASIO driver? Using that would be vastly superior to using Asio4All.

Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2011 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0,
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band

TGTools Pro
Win XP/Pro, Intel Core 2 Quad, 4 GB RAM

Creative XFi Xtreme Music sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums http://www.composeforums.com/forum/Default.asp

Where composers come together to discuss music. Check it out.

Bill Reed
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 376

Posted 7/19/2010 9:59 PM (GMT -5)

No one’s reported on how M-Audio Delta cards behave with Fin2011, but in Fin2010, Finale only gives you right channel or left channel; no stereo output. No other application has this issue, so clearly a Finale problem. MM’s “solution” was to use ASIO4All.

IMHO ASIO4All is trash…

Finale 2010, Notion, Sonar

Win7 x64, WinXP Pro

Tascam FW-1804, Frontier WaveCenterPCI, M-Audio 1010LT

GigaStudio, Kontakt, VSL VI, VE Pro

A closet full of cables, cords, adaptors, etc. that I’d need to moment I got rid of them

Patrick O'Keefe
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 36

Posted 7/19/2010 10:18 PM (GMT -5)

I changed the subject to reference ASIO in general, not just ASIO4ALL.

I installed the M-Audio card and its driver, and changed the audio defs in Windows to use it. I no longer have a sharing problem but I have another problem: Finale is using just one output channel in the sound card. In the Finale "Audio Setup" screen I have the following selects for Output
Analog Out 1/2 L Delta-AP
Analog Out 1/2 R Delta-AP
SPDIF OUT L Delta-AP
I'm using the analog output so I can choose either L or R. It's as though Finale was willing to produce only monaural output when talking to the M-Audio (aka. Delta) card. Sibelius and Windows Media player use both channels with no problem.

Interestingly enough, my using the M-Audio card has freed up the ASIO4ALL single use problem so Finale is no able to use ASIO4ALL to talk to the on-board Realtek audio. I don't have speakers hooked up to it any more but can use headphones . Finale is using both Realtek channels so I don't think I have some mono/stereo option set wrong in Finale.

Does this sound like a familiar problem? I tried searching and didn't find anything, but I really don't know what to search for.

Bill Reed
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 376

Posted 7/19/2010 10:59 PM (GMT -5)

Why ask people for help if you don't bother to read what they post?

Finale 2010, Notion, Sonar

Win7 x64, WinXP Pro

Tascam FW-1804, Frontier WaveCenterPCI, M-Audio 1010LT

GigaStudio, Kontakt, VSL VI, VE Pro

A closet full of cables, cords, adaptors, etc. that I’d need to moment I got rid of them

Patrick O'Keefe
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 36

Posted 7/19/2010 11:51 PM (GMT -5)

Sorry. I was gathering info as I wrote that question - working on it for over 30 minutes. Our posts overlapped.

I think I'll report this a problem with 2011; I may get ASIO4ALL working with the M-Audio card, but that is clearly not the appropriate solution.

Edit: Even with all my on-board sound devices disabled (in Windows, not in BIOS) Finale has ASIO4ALL pointing to the on-board sound - saying it is active and the M-Audio is idle. I don't know how Finale, ASIO4ALL and Windows interact in this, but Sibelius's use of ASIO4ALL switched over to the M-Audio card as soon as I disabled the Realtek devices. This is a real pain.

Post Edited (Patrick O'Keefe) : 7/19/2010 11:12:13 PM (GMT-5)

tom_cairns
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 180

Posted 7/20/2010 3:34 AM (GMT -5)

I'm no expert but everytime I have had any sound issues in the past the first bit of tech help always tells me to turn off the on board audio in the BIOS - maybe this would stop the conflicts?

Tom

Finale 2009b, 2010b, 2011, Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 4

Patrick O'Keefe
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 36

Posted 7/22/2010 12:12 AM (GMT -5)

tom_cairns said...

I'm no expert but everytime I have had any sound issues in the past the first bit of tech help always tells me to turn off the on board audio in the BIOS - maybe this would stop the conflicts?

I might be willing to do that soon, but not until I'm sure I'm not going to be switching back and forth between on board sound and the sound card. Anyway, that would clear up some of the problems - would probably fix the ASIO4ALL problem (if I'm correctly remembering my problems) but wouldn't help with Finale's lack of support for the M-Audio driver. Here's what the Finale tech help said:

Tech Help said...

I thought that using DirectSound was going to be the answer here. The problem with ASIO drivers is they aren't standard the way that DirectSound is. What M-Audio uses for their ASIO drivers is different than what Creative uses for theirs, so very often, DirectSound is the only choice that works.

In other words, M-Audio uses ASIO differently from the way Creative uses ASIO so Finale isn't going to support it. That difference doesn't prevent Sibelius from supporting both. Same for a bunch of sequencers. Even freebie MuseScore gets it right! I'm not terribly impressed.

Ron.
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 3871

Posted 7/22/2010 7:12 AM (GMT -5)

Patrick O'Keefe said...

Why would you ever need your onboard sound chip? On every computer I've ever owned one of the first things I have done was disable the onboard chip. It's nothing except a toy that goes "beep" and "chirp."

As for Asio drivers, I seem to remember that a few years ago M-Audio" Asio driver worked with Finale and the Creative Asio did not.

Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2011 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0,
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band

TGTools Pro
Win XP/Pro, Intel Core 2 Quad, 4 GB RAM

Creative XFi Xtreme Music sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums http://www.composeforums.com/forum/Default.asp

Where composers come together to discuss music. Check it out.

Dave BTW
Bytheway Dave, what's your last name?

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 332

Posted 7/22/2010 10:22 AM (GMT -5)

Just last evening, I had a rush job to make rehearsal files for a funeral family choir. I have installed Finale 2011 but not used it extensively. When attempting to playback (the whole idea of the job) I had the same uneven rhythms that happened in earlier versions. The default installation had selected my Creative ASIO driver. Simply changing to DirectSound cleared the problem right up as before. If I attempt to use the ASIO driver for my RME Fireface 800, Finale completely crashes out as before.

I do not have a single machine where I can use an ASIO driver with Finale successfully. This is the only issue I have had with the last several releases that support ASIO. They really don't work.

Otherwise my experience with Finale 2011 has been wonderful, and I am very pleased with the upgrade.

Dave Bytheway - Desktop Finale 2011 WinXP - TGTools - Nuendo 4.2.2 - Wavelab 6.1 - RME Fireface 800

Fritz Meissner
Choir Addict

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 2655

Posted 7/22/2010 4:42 PM (GMT -5)

Ron]Why would you ever need your onboard sound chip? On every computer I've ever owned one of the first things I have done was disable the onboard chip. It's nothing except a toy that goes said...
eep" and "chirp."

Ron, I think you're confusing this with the little onboard speaker that used to give beeps. Modern onboard sound is pretty good quality if you play it back through an external amp - I think it's probably as good as Creative cards, and it does the surround sound things etc. as well. Now if only the onboard sound included a proper midi port ...

Fritz

PrintMusic 2004, 2006 and 2007, Windows XP Pro, Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS, P4 2.6 GHz + 1 GB
2nd Tenor Cape Town Male Voice Choir
Use the Finale Knowledgebase first !

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