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Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets
      
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| Posted 7/29/2010 1:22 PM (GMT -5) |   | None of them, IMHO; In the case you describe, I would expect to see the staccato only on the second of the two tied eighths.
Gareth J. Green
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gogreen
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| Posted 7/29/2010 3:41 PM (GMT -5) | | 3
Arthur J. Michaels
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QcCowboy
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| Posted 7/29/2010 3:56 PM (GMT -5) | | 3 is the only "logical" choice in the set (the others are all notational nonsense, or technical errors - no.4 blurs the division of beats two through three), HOWEVER, and I think it's an important "however", if the note is marked staccato it should be played at approximately half its length... meaning it will sound like an eighth tied to a 16th.
if all you want is that pause before the 2nd half of beat three, then I would go with option 3 WITHOUT the staccato mark.
Michel R. Edward
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danpowers
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| Posted 7/29/2010 4:11 PM (GMT -5) | | | |
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Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1532
| Posted 7/29/2010 5:24 PM (GMT -5) | |
SAJ said...
It seems to be a runoff between these two. ..
... In which case, the only question is, how long do you actually want the note to sound?
Gareth J. Green
Fin2010b
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Stolichnaya Blue
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Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 1022
| Posted 7/29/2010 5:58 PM (GMT -5) | | Yes, please indicate how short the note is actually supposed to be. Your two choices are absolutely mutually exclusive.
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If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner ReadPost Edited (Flint) : 7/29/2010 5:08:02 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1532
| Posted 7/29/2010 6:19 PM (GMT -5) | |
Jetcopy said...
... It appears the OP wants this note held full value with a quick release on beat 3. That was my interpretation as well, hence my response.
Gareth J. Green
Fin2010b
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Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1532
| Posted 7/29/2010 7:17 PM (GMT -5) | |
Saffron said...For me, putting a staccato in any tied note makes no sense. I'd simply tie the first note to a semiquaver, or shorter, note - Nothing else makes sense from a player's point of view.
I can't agree. Your example looks unnecessarily fussy. To me, putting a staccato on the last of a pair/group of tied notes makes perfect sense, and preserves the visual sense of the pattern. I can pretty much guarantee that were I to put your example in front of my brass band, there would be a sightreading car crash, whereas a simple pattern, with a staccato on the end of the tie, would be read without question.
Gareth J. Green
Fin2010b
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QcCowboy
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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 3035
| Posted 7/29/2010 8:05 PM (GMT -5) | | what speed is this supposed to be played at?
whether the staccato marking or the 16 note/rest notation, the effect is the same. it's the equivalent of a 16th note removed from that tied pair.
in a very slow tempo it would be logical to count it as "a 16th note rest".
in a rapid tempo, simply NOT tying that 1st 8th note to anything, and leaving an 8th note rest on the beginning of the 3rd beat will probably get the exact same interpretation from the players.
I actually find all this preoccupation with staccato dots to be overly fussy.
Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator
Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2011
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010, 2011
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Xsamples chamber Ensemble
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KennethKen
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Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 1543
| Posted 7/30/2010 9:44 AM (GMT -5) | |
Saffron said...
Staccato exists for one reason only - to let composers notate a note of extremely short duration, but in a space that is longer, without worrying about lots of "tails" on the note, and a plethora of fussy rests. Not quite true. Often staccato marks are use to indicate that the notes are to be detatched, not necessarily short and or "extremely short". Even at relatively moderate tempi staccato marks can be used to indicate that notes are detached but by no means "short sounding". Berlioz uses them on half notes in the 4th mvmt of Symphony Fantastique, Bruckner and others use them on quarter notes that are meant to be played detached but otherwise very "fat" sounding". Sometimes, staccato marks are interpreted as meaning "light" which can be executed by putting a big decay on each note without actually inserting space after it (popular in background repeated 1/8 notes at slow tempi). In string writing the staccato on a tied note can infer hooked bowing.
In this example, I personally would prefer the Wlgold/Brian's suggestion or perhaps Gareth's (depending on the context). Showing the 1/16th rest doesn't bother me since the beaming is so clear. In addition to instrumentaion and tempi, other factors to consider are...
- What is the rest of the ensemble (or other hand of the keyboardist) is doing. If they have a slur into the third beat to a change of chord and you want the tied note in your example to resonate as part of that chord, but without being rearticulated you should notate it exactly like the other notes (except with a tie, not a slur). Some players may rearticulate it but, if they ask, it will be much clearer in the score that they are part of the same rhythmic line as the others. To me, rearticulating is a lesser offense (practically and aesthetically) than note matching note lengths or note playing with the rest of the chord. Using example 3 in the original post, even without the staccato mark, can result in the note being played too short.
- Are there many meter changes? Not seeing beat 3 (as in the original poster's last example) may be fine practically speaking if the whole piece is in 4/4. But if there are meter changes that include 5/4, not seeing the 3th beat can confuse players up since not seeing it traditional represents not being in the midpoint of the measure (which they are in the 4/4 measure shown in the post).
Ken
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