Finale SmartMusic
  HomeLog InRegisterSearch the ForumHelp
   
MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows > Help .. Unmetered passage  Forum Quick Jump
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

danacrew
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to danacrewAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 5
 
   Posted 5/6/2004 4:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm trying to figure how I can write an unmetered passage in Finale. This is similar to the Indian music alaap (prelude). The note are written without a time signature. The passage is quite long. I'm working with finale 2003.
 
Dana
Back to Top

Dan Powers
Registered Member



Click to send Dan Powers email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Dan PowersAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2000
Total Posts : 1322
 
   Posted 5/6/2004 7:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In my experience, the best way to do this is to use a time signature, then hide it with the measure tool. (Double click the measure, then Time Signature>always hide.)


Dan Powers
“Workaholic? Brokers and salesmen are workaholics. Artists are obsessed. There’s a difference.” --Edward Sorel

Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 7009
 
   Posted 5/6/2004 7:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just out of curiousity, I created a time signature of 100/1 -- that ought to be big enough for any unmetered measure. (Though, in reality, I would suggest setting the time signature to the actual number of beats in the measure.) Hide it, of course, like Dan suggests.


Ron

Finale 2004b, XP Pro // P4, 2.6 GHz, 2 Gb RAM, SB Audigy
Composer of both sacred and secular music, and the intermingling of the two spheres.
 
"If you don't do it during this lifetime, then when are you going to do it?"

Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 23271
 
   Posted 5/6/2004 8:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The problem is, if it is a really large measure, it will all be on one system. That doesn't work well. And try splitting a measure between systems, with all its bugs. Never you mind. I'll stick to hidden barlines.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, Win 2000 or XP

Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 7009
 
   Posted 5/7/2004 6:40 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
The problem is, if it is a really large measure, it will all be on one system. That doesn't work well. And try splitting a measure between systems, with all its bugs. Never you mind. I'll stick to hidden barlines.

Zuill
It occured to me that an easy workaround might be to set your (hidden) time signature to coincide with length of a system. So, if you determine you'd like a system break after the equivalent of the 35th 1/8th note, just set the time signature to 35/8. Each system can be set up individually that way. You can also hide the bar line at the end of each system if you thought that might make clear that it is all one really big measure.


Ron

Finale 2004b, XP Pro // P4, 2.6 GHz, 2 Gb RAM, SB Audigy
Composer of both sacred and secular music, and the intermingling of the two spheres.
 
"If you don't do it during this lifetime, then when are you going to do it?"

Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 23271
 
   Posted 5/7/2004 9:40 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's ok if you don't have any smaller values (16ths etc.) I still think the easiest way is to just use a common signature and hide all the barlines. The only problem is there will be extra spacing after each of the hidden barlines. Adjustments can be made to this later. The advantage to this method is that spacing will be more even throughout, regardless of the note values.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, Win 2000 or XP

Back to Top

danacrew
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to danacrewAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 5
 
   Posted 5/7/2004 12:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
hmmm... I see your points. I wonder why one can't simply write an adlib piece without having all these constraints. It'll be cool to simply have a time signature bypass switch in the software. Would this be a hard thing to do for a major player like Finale? Is there any other software that allows this?

I have over 3500 pages of this "adlib" to either do by hand or lay it out in some kind of software. So you see why I am so motivated!

Thanks for all the responses. After many years of pencil pushing and having all the freedoms and pains that go with this process, it is an interesting experience re learning everything for computer input / output :)

Dana
Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 23271
 
   Posted 5/7/2004 12:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In the measure tool, there is an option to "position notes evenly across measure". Have you tried this option? You must turn off "check for extra notes" for this to work. I use speedy, so I also have to turn off "jump to next measure". I use this for cadenzas quite frequently. Not great for playback, but works for fitting many notes into one measure.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, Win 2000 or XP

Back to Top

Guitarman
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to GuitarmanAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 2
 
   Posted 10/19/2004 1:06 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The whole thing seems to be a problem with Finale's design philosophy, they assume we are stupid by default!

Why can't we be allowed to decide the unit of the beat (eg. quarter note) and then turn off the time signatures? Why can't we write any rubbish we like in any note values without any time signature at all?

Take a Louis Couperin unmeasured prelude for example: the whole piece is written on two staves for harpsichord with no barlines, using whole notes with phrasing slurs on every note. The purpose of the unmeasured prelude is to allow the performer free to decide the rhythm and time-signatures. Finale doesn't recognise that freedom.

But if I wanted to show you (without any barlines or time-signatures) the note durations that I chose to play I simply couldn't. How can Finale consider itself a serious music notation program if it won't give the user control over the notes he wants to write! Some of us want to analyse music not just compose it.

I am currently struggling with simple examples of scales and modes with whole notes and stemless quarter notes - and guess what I don't want a time signature!

Guitarman
Back to Top

structuregod
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to structuregodAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Aug 2004
Total Posts : 10
 
   Posted 10/21/2004 11:41 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There's a very simple solution...the updated Overture (4) is coming out with a 'Cadenza' feature that allows unlimited input and playback per measure without regard to time signature. I tried this in Finale (as have others) and the workaround is mind-numbing and neck-breaking. The website is Geniesoft.com.

Good luck! eyes
Back to Top

Peter West
Registered Member

Click to send Peter West email.Click to visit Peter West's website.Send a Private Message to Peter WestClick to Add p.west@mac.com to Your AIM Buddy List.ICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 3833
 
   Posted 10/21/2004 11:52 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is an interesting discussion. I have often had a similar problem, though on a smaller scale in the music of John Tavener where he has a solo voice singing in the style of Byzantine chant. What I generally do is make each phrase into a bar, irrespective of the strange time signatures. This way the staff layout logically supports the phrasing. It's not essential, and sometimes with long phrases doesn't work. but that is a basic guide. Once the notes are in place, I select the region with the measure tool, double click (on Mac), which brings up the measure attributes dialog for all the selected measures. I can now force hide time signatures and barlines for the region. (This could also be done with a staff style).

Once the music is spaced it flows well over systems.


Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
Mac 1.2GHz Dual G4/OSX.3.4/20 inch Cinema display and 20 inch CRT
Finale 2004c/2005
Yamaha P-150 Electric Piano
MIDIMAN 2x2 interface

Back to Top

Guitarman
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to GuitarmanAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 2
 
   Posted 10/24/2004 10:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for the replies... still fiddling around...

Guitarman
Back to Top
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
 
Forum Information
Currently it is Saturday, July 26, 2014 7:10 AM (GMT -5)
There are a total of 381,364 posts in 56,830 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 22 new threads and 140 reply posts. View Active Threads
Who's Online
This forum has 31682 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, DrAnthony.
30 Guest(s), 1 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Hector Pascal