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BrendanM
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 9

Posted 1/12/2008 9:25 AM (GMT -5)

has anyone else had this problem?

Finale 2007 worked like gangbusters with my Motu 828 mkii audio (and midi) interface. Finale 2008 crashes like a ... like a volkswagen being driven by an orangutang. The problem, according to Finale Tech Support, after laboriously working through this with me, is something having to do with the midi on the Motu device.

nobody at Motu has heard of this.

The MakeMusic guy on the phone said it's Motu's fault...though the thing that's different here is Finale, from version 2007 to 2008.

Anybody got any ideas? I'm reduced to powering off my lovely audio interface, doing midi with another usb midi interface, and plugging a pair of radioshack speakers into the headphone jack of my G5 in order to get work done. It's okay, but it's a big disappointment after working in 2007.

grrrr.

--Brendan Milburn

Stephen Siegel
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 757

Posted 1/12/2008 12:21 PM (GMT -5)

To help you, we need more information on your setup:

What computer are you using? What OS version are you using? Have you installed the latest drivers from MOTU? Have you repaired permissions with Disk Utility after installing Finale 2008? Have you tried rebuilding the startup disk's directory with Alsoft's DiskWarrior (starting from the DiskWarrior CD)?

I'd suggest trying the separate MIDI interface for MIDI and using the 828 for audio to see what happens. I have a MOTU PCI 424/2408 mk3 that works perfectly with Finale 2008. For MIDI I have a a MOTU MIDI TimePiece AV.

It is eminently predictable that the Finale tech blamed MOTU..... when Finale 2006 consistently exhibited anomalies during playback of external MIDI devices I was told:

1. "Your dual 2.5GHz G5 (then the most powerful Mac available) may be underpowered"
2. "The MIDI Time Piece may be underpowered."
3. "You may not have enough RAM" (I had 5GB at the time).
4. "Playback of external MIDI devices is a nice feature to have, but not essential."
5. "Making playback of external MIDI devices work properly (a feat that all previous versions of Finale were capable of) is really a feature request."

Eventually I determined that Finale 2006 was sending extraneous sync messages in its MIDI data stream and MM confirmed that this was so and corrected the problem in Finale 2007.

Stephen Siegel
Dual 2.5 GHz G5 Powermac
7GB RAM
OS 10.4.11/10.5.1 (on different volumes)
MOTU MIDI Time Piece
MOTU 2408 mk.3 audio interface
Logic 7.2.3 & 8
Digital Performer 4.6.1
Kurzweil K2600
Windows XP machine running Gigastudio

Peter West
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 2983

Posted 1/12/2008 12:33 PM (GMT -5)

When I first installed Finale 2008 I couldn't get beyond MIDI settings when Finale tried to launch. I sent my crash log to wiggy who suggested that the MOTU driver seemed to be the most probable cause of the problem. What I did, which fixed it was:
go to MOTU website and download the latest driver
use the MOTU installer to uninstall MOTU drivers
delete Finale preferences file
restart the computer
Fix file permissions (with Disk Utility)
restart the computer
Launch Finale to Confirm Finale works
reinstall MOTU drivers
restart the computer

I have had no trouble since

Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
Mac 2.66GHz Intel Quad, 4GB RAM /OSX.5.1 /30 inch cinema display+20 inch Cinema Display
Finale 2008a/Logic Pro Studio/Komplete/GPO/Kore 2/Max.msp (and you though Finale had a steep learning curve!!)/Pluggo

Web site: http://web.mac.com/p.west/iWeb/Koros/Welcome.html
Podcast: http://web.mac.com/p.west/iWeb/Koros/Podcast/Podcast.html
iTunes: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=253248128

BrendanM
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 9

Posted 1/12/2008 3:43 PM (GMT -5)

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your incredibly prompt repiies. Y'all rock. I have added my system info and such to my signature...with any luck it'll show up here.

I'll give Peter West's process a try. I've been updating motu stuff up the yinyang, but perhaps an uninstall is called for.

all the best,
terribly grateful,
Brendan Milburn

***************
G5 - dual-core 2.3ghz
OS 10.4.11
Motu 828mkII for audio (and midi, with all other programs besides finale 2008)
Motu Fastlane USB midi interface (for Finale 2008)
some outboard gear and speakers and such
Logic 7, Trilogy, BFD 1.5, Masterwriter, Realguitar 2

BrendanM
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 9

Posted 1/12/2008 4:19 PM (GMT -5)

Well, I'm still crashing as the startup window gets to "Initialzing Midi." Bizarre.

Stephen wrote:
"I'd suggest trying the separate MIDI interface for MIDI and using the 828 for audio to see what happens. "

Stephen, I appreciate your help, but in my particular case I can't seem to tell Finale to simply ignore the midi interface built into the 828MkII. If I turn the thing off, Finale will launch. Turn it back on, and it crashes. With or without a separate usb midi interface plugged in.

I shall now get back to work with my hackneyed, idiotic, low-fi setup and get some work done with this otherwise lovely updated version of Finale. Grr. Thanks for tyring, guys!

--Brendan

Stephen Siegel
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 757

Posted 1/12/2008 5:11 PM (GMT -5)

Brendan:

Take a look at Audio MIDI Setup, you should be able to choose the MIDI interface you want to use there (and check that the settings for Audio devices are correct) and then make sure your MIDI setup in Finale matches that in Audio MIDI Setup and that the settings in Finale's Audio setup are correct.

Have your repaired permissions? If not, use Disk Utility to do so.

Have you deleted existing Finale preferences as Peter suggested?

Do you have a copy of Alsoft's DiskWarrior? If so, rebuild the startup disk's directory with it. If don't have a copy of DiskWarrior, obtain one and rebuild the startup disk's directory with it. (Rebuilding the directory with DiskWarrior, has many, many times, fixed otherwise inexplicable and unfixable problems for me. No I am not an employee of Alsoft - but I do regard it as THE Essential utility for Macs.)

BrendanM
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 9

Posted 1/12/2008 7:59 PM (GMT -5)

Stephen said...
Take a look at Audio MIDI Setup, you should be able to choose the MIDI interface you want to use there (and check that the settings for Audio devices are correct) and then make sure your MIDI setup in Finale matches that in Audio MIDI Setup and that the settings in Finale's Audio setup are correct.

Have your repaired permissions? If not, use Disk Utility to do so.

Have you deleted existing Finale preferences as Peter suggested?

Have done all of this, in the proper (?) order. Strangely, merely having the motu828mkII turned on, but not connected by any midi cable, causes this midi-oriented freakout.

What I have NOT done is used DiskWarrior. Sounds like a killer program, and I shall seek it out shortly. In the meantime, I'm off to a studio in California where I'll be using somebody else's imag g5 for a week, so these issues won't be plaguing me for at least a short time.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, YOU GUYS! The vagaries of the finale upgrade would be SO MUCH MORE PAINFUL without you.

--Brendan

PeterKienle
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2000
Total Posts : 223

Posted 1/14/2008 10:18 PM (GMT -5)

Brendan

I am using almost the same setup as you. (PowerMac G5, OS 10.4.11 828II). It works like a charm here - except, my NI plugins (Kompakt, Absynth) will only go through the main out of the MOTU and not through the headphones. I've tried all the settings I can imagine and these plugins behave fine in Cubase. MOTU tech support was very helpful but concluded it was Finale 2008's fault.

Peter

encephalon
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 254

Posted 1/14/2008 10:40 PM (GMT -5)

Since upgrading (is that the right word? -- hardly feels like a "up" grade) to 2008, audio output from Finale through my Focusrite Saffire Pro26 will only play through the "left" channel (channel 1). Every other audio application works fine with it.

There is no solution, and since MM tech support's ability to frustrate is inversely proportionate to their ability to solve problems, I won't be calling them.

encephalon
Lush Music

Albert S
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 496

Posted 1/15/2008 2:51 AM (GMT -5)

encephalon said...
Since upgrading (is that the right word? -- hardly feels like a "up" grade) to 2008, audio output from Finale through my Focusrite Saffire Pro26 will only play through the "left" channel (channel 1). Every other audio application works fine with it.

I also have this problem since I upgraded to 2008, my Digidesign Mbox only play through the left channel. I read on MMs support pages this was a known bug with a number of Digidesign audio interfaces (Digi 002, 003 etc.) Apparently this is a problem with a number of different audio interfaces.

PowerMac G5 2 X 2.0 GHz Dualcore, 4.5 GB RAM, Mac OS 10.4.11, 2 X 21" TFT Samsung, Digidesign Mbox
MacBook 1.8 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 2 GB RAM
Finale 2007c & 2008a, TGTools, iKey 2, ProTools 6.9.2 LE, Kontakt 2, Full GPO

BrendanM
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 9

Posted 1/27/2008 8:45 AM (GMT -5)

To follow up on my problem with the 828mkII - I haven't learned precisely what was causing Finale 2008a to crash in association with the 828's midi interface...but I have SOLVED THE PROBLEM by digging around on this forum and seeing how others have bypassed their problems by:

making a new user account
installing finale for that account
trying to duplicate the problem.

With a new user account, Finale 2008 did NOT crash on loading, and did NOT hang while configuring midi. So clearly SOMETHING I have installed in my busy life is conflicting with Finale 2008, but I haven't the foggiest idea what. From here on out, I'm going to migrate slowly to this new user account, moving files and licenses over to it as need be, and see if any problems arise.

That said, I harbor a small desire to know precisely what's changed from 2007 to 2008 that would make this problem show up.

In any case, THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP! This community rocks, and my frustration is eased tremendously by your presence and assistance.

all the best from Brooklyn,
Brendan

Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 4747

Posted 1/27/2008 8:54 AM (GMT -5)

BrendanM said...
To follow up on my problem with the 828mkII - I haven't learned precisely what was causing Finale 2008a to crash in association with the 828's midi interface...but I have SOLVED THE PROBLEM by digging around on this forum and seeing how others have bypassed their problems by:

making a new user account
installing finale for that account
trying to duplicate the problem.

You shouldn't need to re-install any software or move licences over, just because you've created a new user account. Apps will still be in /Applications, unless you've installed apps in an Applications folder inside your user account.
If a problem goes away in a new user account, this usually means that the source of the problem is a file in your old User account, usually a preference file in ~/Library/Preferences or a file in ~/Library/Application Support
The next step is usually to delete preferences from your old account until the problem stops in that account, rather than simply migrating to a new account - mostly because the problem may return in a few months, and you'll then create another account!

Finale 2008a, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.1, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

BrendanM
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 9

Posted 1/27/2008 9:06 AM (GMT -5)

Wiggy said...
If a problem goes away in a new user account, this usually means that the source of the problem is a file in your old User account, usually a preference file in ~/Library/Preferences or a file in ~/Library/Application Support
The next step is usually to delete preferences from your old account until the problem stops in that account, rather than simply migrating to a new account - mostly because the problem may return in a few months, and you'll then create another account!

Ah yes, that would be the DILIGENT and SMART thing to do.

Alas, I fear, looming deadlines for these writing gigs will make me log in to this other account to get my Finale work done. And my Logic work done. And everything else, app by app, until I find that Finale stops working.

Back to work, Bren. (sfx: whipcrack)

gracenote
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 259

Posted 1/30/2008 4:36 PM (GMT -5)

The hang at the 'MIDI Initializing' part of start up is a well known problem. A restart normally fixes it. Some have suggested using a third party utility to delete the System and User caches.

Onyx is an excellent utility that can delete caches:

www.titanium.free.fr/pgs/english.html

Drivers for MOTU:
www.motu.com/newsitems/atnewsitem.2006-01-10.6806188708

Gracenote

Specs: iMac 20“, 2.4ghz, 1GB ram, Finale 2008a.r1, Keystation 49E MIDI controller

BrendanM
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 9

Posted 1/30/2008 4:39 PM (GMT -5)

Dear Gracenote,

Thanks for the tips, and the links.

As it turns out, pulling one of the following three items out of my preferences folder did the trick:

com.motu.firewire.CueMix.console.plist
com.motu.firewire.SMTPE.console.plist
com.motu.FireWireAudio
(which is a folder that contains:)
FireWireAudio.plist
0000019848.plist

One, or some, or all of these were the culprit. Not sure which. Don't really care. Things are working again. Whew. Thanks for your help, everybody.

--Brendan

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