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BVDPRESS
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  		   Posted 7/10/2008 9:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Philip. said...


BVDPRESS said...
Having the option to place text boxes in a score or individual part only and not on all of the parts.


BVD, you can place a text box on the score or individual part only and not on all of the parts currently. Well, the object will still be there but you can control on which part/score it is hidden and which part/score it shows, it's actually a fairly easy process. I use this all the time for things like "Page blank for turns". Here is the process (for a part):

1. Create the text box in the desired part
2. Holding down the override key (Command), right click and de-select "Show". This hides the text box in all parts and score.
3. Without the override key this time, right click and select "Show". This shows the part only in the current part by unlinking the item.


I have done this, but when you are working with a Concerto with Orchestra and have 30+ parts it becomes quite tedious for movement names, blank pages, etc. If there was option to create a text box and have the option "appear in this part only" it was be a nice improvement. Or even better, "Center expression to page". On the other hand, someone on the Forum posted a neat workaround if you just have movements which are numbers:

Create an expression and offset it until it is centered to the page. This expression will then appear in every part centered to the page. You may still have to adjust it vertically, but it does save some time. If there were name to the movements, centering is a bit more difficult.

I very much enjoy the fact that we have the linked parts, but in reality I just want more. I would like MM to take the next step. They seem to give the users something to make them happy, but do not go beyond and "wow" us.

Bryan Doughty
http://www.bvdpress.com/
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/

Post Edited (BVDPRESS) : 7/10/2008 8:37:50 AM (GMT-5)

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Philip.
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  		   Posted 7/10/2008 8:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
Of course, Sibelius has nicked a few things straight from Finale over the years, too.

Indeed. Let competition thrive!

BVDPRESS said...
Linked parts: I have to agree with Tyler here. I used the linked parts to a point. Specifically for page layout which saves time, but for most pieces I am unable to use the linked parts to bring a piece to finality. Giving th user a the linked parts was a great addition, but what appears to be a stopping in development is quite strange.

Yes. The is no question that, for me, Linked Parts has been an incredibly useful feature. But just a few improvements to it would really make it great:

Les Preludes said...
Independent measure number regions in score and parts, completely unlinked Smart Shapes, completely unlinked Special Tools adjustments, total support for Plugins. These are needed sooner than later.

All of the above, plus fixing the bug with grace notes in voiced parts.

BVDPRESS said...
Having the option to place text boxes in a score or individual part only and not on all of the parts.


BVD, you can place a text box on the score or individual part only and not on all of the parts currently. Well, the object will still be there but you can control on which part/score it is hidden and which part/score it shows, it's actually a fairly easy process. I use this all the time for things like "Page blank for turns". Here is the process (for a part):

1. Create the text box in the desired part
2. Holding down the override key (Command), right click and de-select "Show". This hides the text box in all parts and score.
3. Without the override key this time, right click and select "Show". This shows the part only in the current part by unlinking the item.
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BVDPRESS
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  		   Posted 7/10/2008 8:08 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
After 2009 was announced, I decided to call tech support and ask a few questions. Here are some answers to the above from what I was told in tech support:

1. Speedy entry is still there (this would have been a deal breaker for me because this is the only way I enter notes from manuscript)
2. The code was rewritten specifically for Leopard and should be much more compatible
3. The new Aria (replacing Kontact Player) is much more user friendly and faster

I wish MM would do a lot of things differently, like list the bugs they have fixed (or acknowledge they exist), have someone monitor and address every question on the Forum head-on, but they have chosen not to. I am sure there will be bugs in 2009 because there always are, but to comment on them before the product is released seems a bit shortsighted.

Linked parts: I have to agree with Tyler here. I used the linked parts to a point. Specifically for page layout which saves time, but for most pieces I am unable to use the linked parts to bring a piece to finality. Giving th user a the linked parts was a great addition, but what appears to be a stopping in development is quite strange.

Bryan Doughty
http://www.bvdpress.com/
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/

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Obiwan Kenobi
Very happy Jedi



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  		   Posted 7/10/2008 4:06 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
Can we please cut down on the sarcastic comments? You're beginning to sound like a certain guy who doesn't post here anymore...! :p

1789, my dear, 1789.
France is the country of Liberty ; the one where it is not unfair to tell that we really think.
And I do hope this forum must stay a place of "liberté d'expression".
After all, USA and France have a revolution hand by hand (à moi Lafayette !).

smurf

Bruno

G4-1.8Ghz / 1.5Go RAM / OSX 10.4.11
MacBook 2.4Ghz / 4Go RAM / OSX 10.5.4
Finale 2000c - 2003a - 2005b - 2008a
Sibelius 4.1.5
Overture 3.6.1 - 4.10

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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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  		   Posted 7/10/2008 3:23 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Philip. said...
Thank you Sibelius, for becoming a very worthy competitor to Finale. The new way of moving and adjusting expressions in Finale 2009 with the attachment indicator is a complete copy of how it's done in Sib. Likewise the ability to edit multiple pages.

Of course, Sibelius has nicked a few things straight from Finale over the years, too.

Finale 2008b, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.3, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"I don't need user friendly. I need user obedient."

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David Young : chambermusic
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  		   Posted 7/10/2008 1:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Iassume that since Leopard has been out for a while, that Finale 2009 works flawlessly on Leopard.

David Young
 
Composer of classical-romantic style chamber and orchestral music.
 
Finale 2.4 through 2008b
Laptop PC, windows XP home, 2.4 ghz, 516 Megs RAM
Desktop PC, windows XP home, Gigastudio 3.03, 2 Gigs RAM, 3 hard drives
Apple Mac Pro, 8 quad, 3.2 ghz, 4 hard drives, Apogee duet, two wide screens
 
Also... GPO, Gigastudio 3.0, Kontakt 3.0, Logic Pro 8, Digital Perfomer 5, KH solo strings, VSL horizon solo strings, JABB, PMI pianos, Sampletekk renaissance flutes, Marimba, percussion, Giovani, Anthrology Celtic Winds and Spiritual Winds, complete Kirk Hunter orchestral library, Kirk Hunter Diamond Library, Garritan Concert and Marching band, Garritan Stradiveri violin and Gofriller cello, True Strike 1 and True Strike 2 and trying hard to learn the other language of music.
 
Join us at www.composeforums.com for discussion of music composition,
arranging and orchestration!

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RLSimenson
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  		   Posted 7/10/2008 12:48 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok, call me paranoid... I appreciate the website's fairly detailed descriptions of many new (and pre-existing) features, but the one thing I noticed which was conspicuous by its absence was under the heading Features: Entering Notes.

http://www.finalemusic.com/Finale/features/enteringnotes/default.aspx

There is a tab and description for Simple Note Entry, Hyperscribe, MicNotator and Scanning. There is no tab, and no mention whatsoever of Speedy Note Entry. Maybe I have an overactive imagination, fueled by years of dealing with various software companies who've released 'updates' that actually crippled or hindered the way I've worked... but could I ask someone with the company to put my mind at ease and confirm that the tool and its functions continue to exist in an intact and familiar form (or go ahead and give whatever lame excuse, er, explanation is going to be offered stating why it wasn't really needed, and nobody was using it, and all of its real functions are going to be folded into other tools that we're sure you'll be much happier with once you get used to the fact that we've removed all that unnecessary speed and functionality from the program.)

I mean, as long as I can still enter notes and rests, and switch between (or launch new) voices and change layers the same way, that is, in step time, playing pitches on a midi keyboard and selecting note values or rest values if no note is being held, I don't care if the entry tools are combined. But if they are combined, then there are about a hundred ways that the differences between Simple and Speedy could merge in a way that actually makes the Speedy method unfamiliar, a lot harder and much more cumbersome.

To make an omelet you gotta break some eggs. To improve a software program, you've got to change how some things are done. But if you're messing with a fundamental method of note entry that people have relied upon and gotten used to over a period of 20 years, then it deserves some detailed explanation.
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Sasha.
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  		   Posted 7/10/2008 12:46 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Philip. said...
Thank you Sibelius, for becoming a very worthy competitor to Finale. The new way of moving and adjusting expressions in Finale 2009 with the attachment indicator is a complete copy of how it's done in Sib. Likewise the ability to edit multiple pages.


That's exactly what I thought. Also, the Document Styles appears to be similar to the House Styles from Sib - I've had a lot of trouble with Finale 'libraries' so this might be good for me. These 3 things would make Finale a lot easier to use (as you said, thank you Sib!).
My main problems with Finale seem to have gone unnoticed, tho. Printing, pdf's and EPS's haven't been mentioned at all...but I don't suppose enough people have had debilitating problems with them?
Might wait for the first user reviews... smilewinkgrin

Mac OS 10.5.2 | Finale 2008 | Dolet 4

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Philip.
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 11:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you Sibelius, for becoming a very worthy competitor to Finale. The new way of moving and adjusting expressions in Finale 2009 with the attachment indicator is a complete copy of how it's done in Sib. Likewise the ability to edit multiple pages.
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Tyler
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 10:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Les Preludes said...


Yeah. That's too bad. Does MakeMusic realize that Linked Parts are unusable in most publishing environments?


That depends on how you use them - certainly using them in the traditional sense so that you have a single file for the score and all parts has problems for publishers. But I think a lot of professionals are now making use of portions of linked parts. For example, many people now use a "parts score" file for all of the parts. That approach allows you to be very free with your edits and do a lot of things more quickly than you could with the old extract parts system.

All that said, yes, it would be nice to have improvements to linked parts.
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Les Preludes
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 9:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BVDPRESS said...
I didn't see any changes in the linked parts. Has this just dropped off the table for more important things?


Yeah. That's too bad. Does MakeMusic realize that Linked Parts are unusable in most publishing environments?

Independent measure number regions in score and parts, completely unlinked Smart Shapes, completely unlinked Special Tools adjustments, total support for Plugins. These are needed sooner than later.

Les
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gracenote
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 9:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BVDPRESS said...


Not sure if you were looking for it as well, but for linked parts I was looking for:

The ability to use plugins.


Yes! That feature alone would make me upgrade. Right now you can clean up your score with ease but end up spending more time manually cleaning up the parts. The Vertical Collision removal is almost useless because of this limitation. We'll have to wait for 2010.
__________________________

What caught my eye in this upgrade was the expression assignment, new Garritan sounds and interface, the improvement of smart slur placement between pages and a friendlier page view in general. These are nice features. I still find myself spending more time in Page View than any other, especially with my nice big monitor. The editing between pages has been a little flakey in 2008. I am not that fond of the Kontact 2 Player and will be curious to see how the new player compares.

I applaud MakeMusic for continuing to upgrade this program and for continuing to keep Mac in mind when these versions come out.

GN

Specs: iMac 20“ Intel, 2.4ghz, 4GB ram, OS 10.5.4; iBook PPC 1.2ghz, 768M ram, OS 10.4.11

Finale 2008b.r1, Keystation 49E MIDI controller, Yamaha PSR 520, MIDIMAN 1x1

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BVDPRESS
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 6:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bill Stevens said...
What I hoped for but didn't see:

Edit Lyrics box resizing. This was mentioned for some other boxes but not lyrics.

Different page numbers for score and parts on linked parts.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised when my copy arrives.

Bill


Not sure if you were looking for it as well, but for linked parts I was looking for:

The ability to use plugins.

Having the option to place text boxes in a score or individual part only and not on all of the parts.

Lots of other little issues with linked parts, but I didn't even see a mention of anything linked above. There is some info here:

http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/features/timesavers/linkedparts.aspx

I like the idea of printing multiple copies of the same part, but unless every part is formatted exactly the same (8.5x11, 11x17, etc.) I am not sure this is actually a timesaver. Am I missing something?

Bryan Doughty
http://www.bvdpress.com/
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/

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Saul Tobin
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 6:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Aha! I predicted that Finale 2009 would be unveiled within a week of my birthday!

I am psyched for expression categories, multiple page view, and baritone saxophone. I hope that the playback improvements fix the bug with ties.

A few other things I'd like to see:

1) The cmd-F hotkey to flip smart shapes and tuplets ought to work also for articulations.
2) Copy and paste to/from layers.
3) An option for displaying all accidentals.
4) Better default formatting for beamed chords with some notes on each staff.
5) Chromatic transpositions selectable from setup wizard.
6) Text boxes ought to automatically wrap text when the box width reaches the page margins.
7) More transparent support for multiple custom smart shapes in a file.
8) Upon switching between selection tools, speedy edit, and simple edit, the same measure should stay selected (in the case of simple, the cursor would go to before the first note of the measure).

USC '11, Composition
Finale 2008 on MacBook Pro (OS X 10.4.11), with Edirol PCR-M1 MIDI controller

Post Edited (Saul Tobin) : 7/9/2008 5:53:43 PM (GMT-5)

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Bill Stevens
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 6:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What I hoped for but didn't see:

Edit Lyrics box resizing. This was mentioned for some other boxes but not lyrics.

Different page numbers for score and parts on linked parts.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised when my copy arrives.

Bill
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Brent Lord
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 5:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There are 18 new features and 28 fixes listed above. Another typical forced upgrade. With the usual lingering bugs swept under the carpet.

I *will not* purchase 2009 until a fix is confirmed for the incompatibility with MOTU's audio interfaces. It would just sit in the box with the brand-new 2008 that I also never used. Finale 2007 still works just fine in the identical OS and MOTU interface environment. Yes I trashed my preferences. Many times. The problem was introduced and is inherent in Finale 2008. Let's hope the rest of the Finale world isn't moving forward, or I'll be cut out of the compatibility loop.

You'd think it would be embarrassing for MakeMusic that so many new owners of Finale 2008 were met with crashes on launch. I should not be forced to use default CueMix names (which, besides defeating a major feature of MOTU interfaces, would require reassigning every input of every DP project file I open after that) just to make Finale's lazy programming work. Why should MOTU's usefulness suffer because of Finale's problem? Programs written properly to use the dynamic names assigned in CueMix don't crash.

Confirmation of the problem from Finale, but only that workaround:
Finale Knowledgebase: Finale 2008 crashes with MOTU Traveler on Mac

Four unresolved threads below from the Forum. Person after person who has ravaged their preferences (what good are prefs if you have to trash them all the time?) and detailed their woes with *multiple* MOTU interfaces, to be met with a paid upgrade and no mention of a fix?
Finale 2008, Traveler and Mac OSX 10.5.2
Finale 2007 & Motu 828mkii: Yes. Finale 2008 & Motu 828mkii: crash. ?!?!?
2008 won't launch – any ideas?
Finale 2008 & MOTU 896hd Incompatibility
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BVDPRESS
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 4:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I didn't see any changes in the linked parts. Has this just dropped off the table for more important things?

Bryan Doughty
http://www.bvdpress.com/
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/

Post Edited (BVDPRESS) : 7/9/2008 5:05:49 PM (GMT-5)

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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 4:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Obviously, no-one will know the details until we can download a demo or until we try out a real working copy, so speculation on what 'bugs' may exist or not is pointless.

Bruno, you've been using Finale for at least 8 years - it's a little late to start complaining about MM's policy of releasing a new product every year.

Frankly, I'm delighted that this product seems to be a real step forward, and represents significant value over 2008.
Can we please cut down on the sarcastic comments? You're beginning to sound like a certain guy who doesn't post here anymore...! :p

Finale 2008b, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.3, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"I don't need user friendly. I need user obedient."

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Obiwan Kenobi
Very happy Jedi



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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 3:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Moody said...
Does anyone know whether the tie-note drop-outs are fixed in Finale 2009???

The only thing really fixed in 2009 is the amount of your bank account...

:p

Bruno

G4-1.8Ghz / 1.5Go RAM / OSX 10.4.11
MacBook 2.4Ghz / 4Go RAM / OSX 10.5.4
Finale 2000c - 2003a - 2005b - 2008a
Sibelius 4.1.5
Overture 3.6.1 - 4.10

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John Moody
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 3:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Does anyone know whether the tie-note drop-outs are fixed in Finale 2009???
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Scott at MakeMusic
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 3:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Nikk,

Once Finale 2009 is shipping, anyone who puchased Finale 2008 within 30 days of the release is eligible for a free upgrade to 2009. You will need a dated receipt, and you'll have to pay for the shipping.

Contact customer support or call 800-843-2066 when the time comes.

Best wishes,

Scott
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Jeremy Levy
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 2:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
great... have to make all new quickeys for the expression list now...

Jeremy Levy
Trombonist, Orchestrator, Composer/Arranger, Copyist
Glendale, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Mac Pro - Quad Core 2.66 GHz
5 GB RAM
Finale 2007c & 2008
Sibelius 4 & 5
Logic Pro 7.2.3
Digital Performer 5.12
NI Komplete 5

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Obiwan Kenobi
Very happy Jedi



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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 2:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Expressions
- Copy Multiple no longer causes Expressions to be duplicated
- The "Allow Individual Edits Per Score" setting no longer causes expressions to jump when selected or nudged.
- Unmodified keys (i.e. D) no longer modify objections in the selection dialog box.
Page Layout
- Scrolling no longer deselects Page Layout handles.
- Horizontal scroll now works at low view percentages.
Page View
- Show Postscript Preview no longer only shows one page.Selection
- The Expression Designer in Finale for creating SmartMusic Marker Expressions no longer uses the 1-100 scale for IA instead of 1-10.
- A warning appears no longer while trying to do a SmartFind and Paint function recommending you turn on partial measure selection.
- Selection between optimized staves no longer produces unexpected results.
Smart Shapes
- Custom Smart Shapes no longer cause certain files to hang.
- Slurs attached to notes with articulations no longer draw and print with unduly high slur contours.
Staff Tool
- Staff styles are no longer duplicated on Paste Multiple.
- Applying a staff style no longer causes manuscript paper to be absent from pages 2 and up.
- Chord symbols on staves set to a chromatic transposition are now transposed properly.

Well, all that we would reasonably have expected from the 2008c update ; it is obvious now that MM force us to pay the "normal" updates.
Scandalous ! mad

Bruno
Paris-France

G4-1.8Ghz / 1.5Go RAM / OSX 10.4.11
MacBook 2.4Ghz / 4Go RAM / OSX 10.5.4
Finale 2000c - 2003a - 2005b - 2008a
Sibelius 4.1.5
Overture 3.6.1 - 4.10

Post Edited (Obiwan Kenobi) : 7/9/2008 2:10:26 PM (GMT-5)

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Nikk
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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 2:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dang. If I just bought 2008 in the past week, can I get a discount on 2009? Heh heh. ;-)

++
np

Finale 2007c, Mac OSX 5.2

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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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  		   Posted 7/9/2008 1:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wow. So that's what all the 'resources' have been doing!

I'm really impressed. This looks like a major overhaul and redesign. Let's hope it fixes everyone's pet bugs.

Finale 2008b, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.3, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

"I don't need user friendly. I need user obedient."

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