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Claude Krier
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   Posted 7/24/2010 7:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Concerning the A of the chord in the attachment, I would like to keep only the flat and remove the natural, who knows about?
Thank you for your help
Claude
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OCTOECHOS
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   Posted 7/24/2010 8:00 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
select the tone and press V


Finale 2009c, OS X 10.5.8 / MacBookPro & iMac 20" /

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Bill Stevens
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   Posted 7/24/2010 8:51 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Claude,

Do you mean for those two A's to be unison, or is there a half-step between them?

Bill


Finale 2011 (all versions since 1.0)
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OS 10.6.4

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tbmartin
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   Posted 7/24/2010 5:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As a performer, I'd be very confused by having two As in the same chord. If the pitches are a half step apart, consider writing it as G# and A, or perhaps Ab and Bbb. If they're supposed to be in unison, what's the point of having 2 noteheads?


Terence
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Using Finale 2003a, Windows XP Pro and Vista

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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 7/24/2010 5:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Since you're just setting a cat on the keyboard, does it matter? devil



Mike Rosen
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Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010; Finale 2010b, 2011
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Claude Krier
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   Posted 7/25/2010 3:24 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In modern notation, an accidental belongs only to the note where it stands, so if you write an A and an A flat, you do not need an A natural!
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Claude Krier
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   Posted 7/25/2010 3:25 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Press V does not work!
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Bill Stevens
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   Posted 7/25/2010 7:01 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm guessing here. I think you want both of the A's to be A-flat and you want to figure out how to get rid of the natural. Right so far? If I'm right, then you need to change the A-natural to an A-flat. In Simple Entry or Speedy Entry you select the note and press minus to move it down a half-step.

Bill


Finale 2011 (all versions since 1.0)
Staff Paper and #2 Pencil
OS 10.6.4

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Claude Krier
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   Posted 7/25/2010 4:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you Bill, this looks ok. But Finale should be capable to display an A and an A flat (or sharp) together in a chord without this natural. In contemporary music its rather a common case! I'll ask the guys from Finale!
Claude
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Bill Stevens
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   Posted 7/25/2010 4:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If you want to just get rid of the natural in this one instance, you can use the Accidental Offset Tool in Special Tools and just drag it off the edge of the page.

I agree with others here that it would be easier to read if the A-flat were a G-sharp.

Bill


Finale 2011 (all versions since 1.0)
Staff Paper and #2 Pencil
OS 10.6.4

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Jetcopy
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   Posted 7/25/2010 5:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Claude,

I truly do not understand this notation, seems unnecessarily confusing to me.

But your solution would be to either hide the natural which is easily done, or to simply enter both notes as Ab which will do away with the natural completely. This won't playback correctly, but will give you what you want.


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Zuill
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   Posted 7/26/2010 12:38 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

You can find this in Gershwin. However, the example I know of has the notes needing the angled stem at the end of the chord, not in the middle. This might look a bit awkward, but keeping an A and an Ab needs something to make it clear.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"


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Claude Krier
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   Posted 7/26/2010 2:21 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As it looks, Finale does not have a general option for this kind of notation.
Claude
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Zuill
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   Posted 7/26/2010 2:27 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No, it doesn't. How would you ultimately want it to look?

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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tbmartin
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   Posted 7/26/2010 12:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
At some point, I'd like Claude (OP) to tell me why he wants to use A and Ab in the same chord, rather than spelling it as G# and A. I don't mean that to be a snarky mean-spirited comment. I truly want to know. My exposure to modern music is very limited, and my music notational vocabulary has very little invented after about 1920. If spelling the chord with G# and A means something different than spelling it Ab and A, I'd like to know what that difference is just to help expand my knowledge.

Thanks!


Terence
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Using Finale 2003a, Windows XP Pro and Vista

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Zuill
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   Posted 7/26/2010 12:16 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For my money, the only way to make them A and Ab is with a flaired out stem, as it is seen in literature, yet as a sight reader, G# and A is much easier to get on the fly.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Jetcopy
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   Posted 7/26/2010 1:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Like Terence said above, I also would like to understand the logic behind this. If it can be notated using "standard" notation, why reinvent the wheel if you don't have to?


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Motet
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   Posted 7/27/2010 12:45 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I got Finale to do what you want, though I agree with others that it's not good notation. Enter the second chord as (from the bottom) D-G#-A-D, then change the G# enharmonically to an Ab.
 
With the Speedy Entry tool, Ctrl-click on the measure to invoke the Edit Frame. Click Next Entry to take you to the second chord, then Next Note twice to take you to Note ID 3, which should be your A natural. Now uncheck Accidental, which will remove the natural sign. Click OK for the change to take place. Playback will be correct.


Finale 2005b, TGTools
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Post Edited (Motet) : 7/26/2010 11:55:32 PM (GMT-5)


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Zuill
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   Posted 7/27/2010 1:56 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
But, who would play it as an A and an A flat? Thye notation is still confusing, to say the least. If you want any good sight reader to get this one, the 2 A's with only one flat is going to be missed, I'm afraid. I would certainly probably not think to play an A and an A flat.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Motet
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   Posted 7/27/2010 2:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Agreed.


Finale 2005b, TGTools
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