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musicus
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   Posted 10/26/2011 4:31 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can anyone tell me how Finale's staff sizes (percentages) relate to the older Rastral sizes, please? I have searched the documentation and the forum, but without success.

For reference, here are the Rastral numbers and their corresponding staff heights (source: Behind Bars, Gould, Faber Music, 2011):

Rastal number 0 = staff height 9.2mm
Rastal number 1 = staff height 7.9mm
Rastal number 2 = staff height 7.4mm
Rastal number 3 = staff height 7.0mm
Rastal number 4 = staff height 6.5mm
Rastal number 5 = staff height 6.0mm
Rastal number 6 = staff height 5.5mm
Rastal number 7 = staff height 4.8mm
Rastal number 8 = staff height 3.7mm

I would be very grateful for any help with this.

Alan
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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 10/26/2011 5:02 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There are two ways of doing it:

You can either specify the Staff Height directly in Page Format > System Scaling, and keep the % Scaling at 100%;
Or you can use the System Scaling to adjust the size:

0 = 110%
1 = 100%
2 = 85%
3 = 80%
4 = 75%
5 = 70%
6 = 65%
7 = 60%

(Figures according to Steven Powell's "Music Engraving Today".) I assume that this is based on a staff height of 82 EVPUs.

Also, keep the Page Scale at 100%.

I have often thought that Finale should allow people to enter a staff gauge directly -- but on the other hand, the gauges were designed in the days before digital printing gave us infinite degrees of scaling. One could argue that as long as an instrumental part is big and a choral score quite small, then there is no need to adhere to a mechanical setting.


Finale 2012, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.7.2
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Ancient Groove Music
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musicus
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   Posted 10/26/2011 5:07 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Phew! That was quick. Thank you very much for your clear and helpful response.

Alan
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David Ward
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   Posted 10/26/2011 5:44 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Those percentages compared with Rastral numbers plus Elaine Gould's identification of numbers and actual stave sizes seem potentially useful information. I'm copying all this into my 'Finale extras' folder for future reference.

Thank you both Wiggy and musicus.


David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b
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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 10/26/2011 5:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have compiled this table, which gives slightly different dimensions in mm for some of them, from those in Elaine's book. Not sure where I got it from, but I was compiling information for my own Music Notation manual.

No.    Name    Height "    Height mm    Use
0    Commercial    22/64    8.73    Orchestral music
1    Giant             20/64    7.94    Orchestral music
2    English           19/64    7.54    Orchestral music
3    Common        18/64    7.14    Songs, pianoforte music
4    Peter              17/64    6.77    Songs, pianoforte music
5    Large Middle    15/64    5.95    Band parts, choral, sheet music
6    Small Middle    14/64    5.56    Part songs, choral music
7    Cadenza          12/64    4.76    Pocket editions, cue lines
8    Pearl                 10/64    3.97    Thematic advertisements, incidental purposes.

The fractions are deliberately un-simplified, so that you can see the relationship of one to another.

I also have this image, which certainly seems to relate to Finale, but again seems to use different dimensions!


Finale 2012, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.7.2
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 10/26/2011 6:44:51 AM (GMT-5)


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keelingj
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   Posted 3/5/2013 4:00 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Please correct me if you know otherwise or if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but it seems the Finale percentages in Steven Powell's chart, are outdated. I was baffled that I was getting smaller staff sizes than the chart (and this thread) when I printed and measured them. It seems Finale has shrunk its default staff size to a little less than a quarter inch, or about 6mm. I went back to scores I had done as a student in 2002 (when the Powell book was published), and the staff sizes are bigger.


Joshua Keeling
Finale 2012b
OSX 10.6.8

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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 3/5/2013 4:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I mentioned in my original post that the percentages were based on a Staff Size of 82 EVPUs. That's 7.2 mm or 0.28 inches. The 2012 Maestro Default file still has that Staff Height.


"This is me helping."

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Peter West
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   Posted 3/6/2013 1:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When using the score Wizard, Finale has a habit , quite illogically I think, of making the default staff size less than 4 spaces, then applying other reductions to fit everything on the page.
Wiggy clearly stated that his figures were based on 82 EVPU. Which translates as 4 spaces.

This is quite confusing, because Finale translates between all measurement units, including spaces, but spaces are not absolute.

This could be the source of the confusion.


Peter
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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 3/6/2013 2:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter West said...
When using the score Wizard, Finale has a habit , quite illogically I think, of making the default staff size less than 4 spaces, then applying other reductions to fit everything on the page.

There does seem to be a mad thing where, if the Page Size is not 100% in your Document Style, Finale will make crazy adjustments to the Staff Height and Staff Scaling to make the systems fit when it first creates the document.

Am I also right in thinking the "Graphic Selection Export location Offset" bug only affects Page Scaling of less than 100%?


"This is me helping."

Finale 2012c, 2.6Ghz 2012 MacMini 16Gb RAM (10.8.2)
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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