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Mike Rosen
himself



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Total Posts : 11970
 
   Posted 12/18/2013 5:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not a power user, and my needs are fairly simple: four-part harmony, the occasional piano accompaniment. After solving the initial hang at startup problem, I have been giving 2014 a test run.

Generally, I'm not happy with it. I'm experiencing a few repeating issues that I did not have with 2012.

Often, when I try to move horizontally by sliding my finger on the mouse, the page "floats," as if I had the hand grabber engaged. This is in page view, when I'm doing final tweaking and editing.

Response when switching tools seems slower.

When editing lyrics, sometimes the tool just won't enter the cursor. I can switch tools a few times, and sometimes it works, but a restart of Finale is a more needed option. Also, changing view size will occasionally help.

When selecting lyrics in the lyric window, it's VERY slow.

On the other hand, the Virtual Stuck Key has only happened once or twice. And I really like having the move by measure arrows back in Scroll view.

Has anyone else experienced similar issues?

Don't misunderstand me; I'm not joining the Finalesuckswhatweretheythinkingworstupgradeever camp. But for now, I've gone back to 2012.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org

Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014 on Mac 10.9
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Writer of Music
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   Posted 12/18/2013 5:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Rosen said...
I'm not joining the Finalesuckswhatweretheythinkingworstupgradeever camp. But for now, I've gone back to 2012.


Well, whether or not you join that camp (is there one?), the result is the same: you bought a piece of software, but will not use it at least until the next update. Well worth your money?


Finale 2014, but switched back to 2012c
Mac OS X 10.9, 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

… as the critic said to the composer: "It's not just you're a brownnose, your music really stinks".

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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 12/18/2013 5:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's a shame: I'm sorry to hear that. Of course, everyone's experiences are different, and there are certainly some things that need fixing in 2014.

Mike Rosen said...
Often, when I try to move horizontally by sliding my finger on the mouse, the page "floats," as if I had the hand grabber engaged. This is in page view, when I'm doing final tweaking and editing.

I've not seen this. Mind you, I use a Magic TrackPad. Have you reported this to MM, and what did they say?

Mike Rosen said...
Response when switching tools seems slower.
When selecting lyrics in the lyric window, it's VERY slow.

One of the main benefits for me is that I find 2014 much more responsive than previous versions. 2011 and 2012 have both been very laggy for me -- particularly when using Simple Entry and when using the Lyrics Window. Everything used to slow down when a document reached a moderate size. Scrolling is now a joy.

Mike Rosen said...
When editing lyrics, sometimes the tool just won't enter the cursor. I can switch tools a few times, and sometimes it works, but a restart of Finale is a more needed option. Also, changing view size will occasionally help.

I have experienced some "focus" issues, where the keyboard is unresponsive because the document window isn't "frontmost". Clicking on the menu bar seems to restore things. I've not seen this exact thing, though. I've been using 2014 exclusively for a while and produced several completed scores. I've removed 2012 from my computers!

I would hope that with the longer interval between versions, we will see more than just a couple of updates. The use of the Sparkle update engine would hopefully suggest that. 2014 does seem to cause problems for some people -- at least you're not having all the crash nightmares that some are having.

For comparison: Apple's Mavericks OS is generally thought to be responsive, efficient, and stable. Yet, even with all the resources available to a company of Apple's size and wealth, there are still people who experience sluggishness, problems with external hardware, etc, etc.

I would suggest that you tell MM as much about your experiences as possible. They do seem to be listening, and they are doing what they can to effect fixes. I'm not an MM apologist, and I will (and do) take them to task: but working with them is better for everyone than ... not.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014, 2.6Ghz 2012 MacMini 16Gb RAM (10.9); 2009 MacBook
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 12/18/2013 3:47:17 PM (GMT-6)

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Mike Rosen
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Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 11970
 
   Posted 12/18/2013 8:39 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Writer of Music said...
Mike Rosen said...
I'm not joining the Finalesuckswhatweretheythinkingworstupgradeever camp. But for now, I've gone back to 2012.


Well, whether or not you join that camp (is there one?), the result is the same: you bought a piece of software, but will not use it at least until the next update. Well worth your money?


Yes, well worth my money. No matter how much (or how little) beta testing was done, how anything works on any particular system won't be seen until it's tried. I need to see how it works for me, and give (to the best of my ability) cogent, reasoned, observed results to help the company find and eliminate flaws. Jumping on the "this is no good bandwagon", and waiting until the next update, would have done nothing. However, I need to get some work done, and so, for the time being, I am returning to a version that had its own, different set of problems.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org

Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014 on Mac 10.9
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 11970
 
   Posted 12/18/2013 8:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy,
No, I haven't communicated any of these problems yet, simply because I wanted to give the program a fair trial. Now that I am coming more to grips with what does (and doesn't) happen, I will certainly be sending in reports.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org

Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014 on Mac 10.9
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Bill Stevens
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Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 4622
 
   Posted 12/18/2013 10:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>> When editing lyrics, sometimes the tool just won't enter the cursor.

Is this in the score or in the lyrics editing window?

Bill


Finale 2014 (all versions since 1.0)
Mostly I use 2011c
Staff Paper and #2 Pencil with eraser
OS 10.9

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 11970
 
   Posted 12/18/2013 11:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bill, this is in the score. I have entered the majority of the lyrics from the window, but there are other lines better done with type into score. And, of course, corrections...



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org

Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014 on Mac 10.9
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Christopher Smith
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Total Posts : 1640
 
   Posted 12/19/2013 9:06 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In 2012, lyrics get REALLY logey once I have more than a full Edit window's worth. I have also experienced your problem with getting the cursor to "catch" a note. Switching out of the tool, then back helped.

I had a 300 measure SATB with orchestra medley that was so slow it was close to being unworkable, and I had put in the vocal parts FIRST. If this is no better in 2014, it might be a deal breaker for me, too.


Christopher Smith

Mac 2 x 2 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6.8
Finale 2011b and 2012c r.13
or
Mac iBook G4 733 Mhz
OSX 10.4.11
Finale 2010b r.1

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grandiloquent
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Total Posts : 12
 
   Posted 12/20/2013 6:17 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Any time a new version of a software gets available, I tend to wait for the first update to upgrade to the new version. However, I also was very excited to test the new Finale, since it had been two years since we saw a brand new Finale.

Although I liked some of the new features, it didn't take me long to switch back to my beloved Finale 2012. Some reasons include:

- With bigger/longer scores (I tend to use a lot of extra fonts and graphics) Finale 2014 does get much slower than 2012. And that gets very tiring after a while.
- The vectoral graphics import feature has not been updated at all. I faced the same blurryness problems with EPS import on Mac. After a thread here, I contacted MakeMusic service via e-mail; and their (very quick) response was:

"Thanks for contacting MakeMusic customer support. I can verify that I get unpredictable results with EPS files as well. One file displayed just as you said in your first post - it says it's "embedded", but the actual image isn't there. It did print out fine though, while I see that yours did not. The next file I tried did display in Finale just fine. I'd like to talk this over with some of our specialists first, but it looks like there may very well be a defect in the program. I've set this case in Researching status as I look into this for you, and I will send a response as soon as I have more information."

I just wished they had fixed that.

- I have no clue where the old variety of backgrounds and manuscript textures have gone (well, it's easy to copy-paste them into their respective folders).
- It's hard to believe that one still needs plug-ins like JW Yada Yada Tremolos to insert decent looking tremelos.

I guess I will wait for a few updates and then do my test again.


Finale 2012c.r13 for Macintosh
Mac OS X v10.8.6 with iMac (3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3 Memory)
Mac OS X v10.9.1 with MacBookPro (2,9 GHz Intel Core i7, 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 Memory)
Focusrite Saffire PRO 40 Audio Interface

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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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Total Posts : 10118
 
   Posted 12/20/2013 7:02 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
grandiloquent said...
- With bigger/longer scores (I tend to use a lot of extra fonts and graphics) Finale 2014 does get much slower than 2012. And that gets very tiring after a while.
- The vectoral graphics import feature has not been updated at all. I faced the same blurryness problems with EPS import on Mac. After a thread here, I contacted MakeMusic service via e-mail; and their (very quick) response was:

1. Finale 2014 does gets slow when you try to scroll with a selection highlighted, but otherwise I find it MUCH faster in every respect to 2012. Scores over a certain size used to get very stodgy in 2012 and using the Lyric Window was an enforced tea-break. If you are experiencing slowness without a selection highlighted, then I don't think that's normal, and you should report it.

2. EPS (and PDF) imports will LOOK crappy on screen, as Finale uses a low-res screen preview of the file. It should print ok, though. However, if you Save As PDF, then you get the crappy low-res image. You need to Save As Postscript (from the PDF button in the print menu, not Finale's venerable "Compile As Postscript Listing") and then open the PS file in Preview or Distiller.

As for the backgrounds: they couldn't be printed and were entirely cosmetic. I find any background pattern is likely to be distracting or intrusive. Or they made me try to clean the screen. The one exception is a nice graph paper one that someone made. Same for all the different tool palette icons, most of which were objectively hideous. But yes, it is curious they did away with them.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014, 2.6Ghz 2012 MacMini 16Gb RAM (10.9); 2009 MacBook
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 12/20/2013 5:07:17 AM (GMT-6)

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David Ward
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   Posted 12/20/2013 7:03 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
grandiloquent said...
- With bigger/longer scores (I tend to use a lot of extra fonts and graphics) Finale 2014 does get much slower than 2012. And that gets very tiring after a while.
What I do find disconcerting is the time it takes in F 2014 to save a large file - approximately 15 seconds for each save of a 1,892 bar, 17,925 active frame, 4.2 MB file, irrespective of the type or number of changes since the last save. This is likely to be a major nuisance if one very frequently saves as a matter of course. This is not a problem with a small file, but is potentially a very serious problem for those of us working with operas and the like. I really don't want to have to go back to splitting music which plays without a break into numerous small files, as that has its own problems and would involve having numerous Finale files open at the same time.

Would having more memory speed up the saving? I still have only 4GB on the new (bought October) Mini running F 2014, but aim to up that to 16 GB when I can get round to it.


David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b, 2014
Mac 10.6.8, 10.8.5
full TGTools

Now opening all sorts of files and tinkering in F 2014, but the real test to come.

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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 12/20/2013 7:12 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
David Ward said...
What I do find disconcerting is the time it takes in F 2014 to save a large file - approximately 15 seconds for each save of a 1,892 bar, 17,925 active frame, 4.2 MB file, irrespective of the type or number of changes since the last save.

David, I don't think RAM will change much (though I would recommend you max out your Mini!).

This is likely to be a consequence of the new format. It's zipped up XML, so is going to require a bit more work. I would report this to MM, as I'm sure they'll want it to be as speedy as possible.
My biggest files are about half that size, and I get around 4 seconds for a save.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014, 2.6Ghz 2012 MacMini 16Gb RAM (10.9); 2009 MacBook
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 12/20/2013 2:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I promised myself that I will not upgrade neither my machine nor system nor Finale. Everything works good so far. I am not sure that my music would look better in 2014. And I don't see any new thing that will make my workflow faster.
It is also true with my Logic Pro 8, OS X.6.8 and the rest of audio software I have.
Simply I don't want to fall victim on some "feels better"-tricks.


Finale 2011c,OS X 10.6.8

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Vaughan
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Total Posts : 3777
 
   Posted 12/21/2013 5:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Understandable. On the other hand, Finale 2004 worked well, too, and your music most likely won't look better in 2014 than it did in 2004, although I wouldn't think of going back to that version. As 2014 is stable for me, I'm not even going back to 2012. I like the new features and I wouldn't look upon the 'feels better' aspect as unimportant.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.9
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2

Amsterdam

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