Finale SmartMusic
  HomeLog InRegisterSearch the ForumHelp
   
MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh > How to place several movements in one Finale document?  Forum Quick Jump
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Oystein
composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Oystein's website.Send a Private Message to OysteinAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 11:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi,
I am just finishing a chamber music work containing 4 movements. These movements exists as 4 independent Finale files. Now, before printing, I want to layout the whole work in one Finale document for several reasons. But I can not find a way of doing this. The only way I find is using clipboards, and then I can only past all the music into one piece.

Is there a way in page layout or somwhere else, to put all this together, so that the movements remains "individual" in terms of layout?

Oystein


Finale 2004
Mac G4 dual 1.25 | 2 GB Ram | OS 10.2.8

Back to Top

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill StevensAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 4753
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 11:38 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not sure I understand your question, but you can't have your four movements in one Finale file and have them independent. They will essentially be one piece. However, you can use the page layout tool to separate the end of one movement from the beginning of another and leave space for a title, so the "look" will be the same as if you had four independent files. I hope this answers your question.
Back to Top

Oystein
composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Oystein's website.Send a Private Message to OysteinAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 12:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks a lot for that.

I am trying it out now. It seems to work, but I must say I could imagine a shorter way to go for this, it makes extra work. I will put it on my list for suggestions for next update.

This forum is really great!


Finale 2004
Mac G4 dual 1.25 | 2 GB Ram | OS 10.2.8

Back to Top

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill StevensAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 4753
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 1:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There is a tool in the TGTools package called Staff List Manager which may be a bit thorny to learn, but once you have it, it makes the kind of Page Layout job you're writing about much easier, especially if you are optimizing staves. If you are doing orchestra scores it's an indispensable tool.
Back to Top

Jetcopy
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to JetcopyAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2000
Total Posts : 4091
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 2:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There is another tool in TG tools that would work perfectly. Under: Modify>Transfer. With this plug-in you can transfer all of your layout information from one document to another. You could for instance make a clip file of your 2nd movement. Add the appropriate number of bars at the end of the 1st movement. Paste the 2nd movement into those bars. Then use the TG Tools Trabsfer plug-in to copy all of the layout information from your original 2nd movement file into the section you just pasted in. This plug-in saves me hours of time.

Jeff
Back to Top

Oystein
composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Oystein's website.Send a Private Message to OysteinAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 5:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you Billstevens and Jetcopy for good advice.

TGTools, where do I find them? (Are these tools for Mac?) Sorry, I havent used Finale for some years now... just started up again.

However, this sounds like workarounds. I am sometimes shaking my head about Finale because things that should be and COULD BE simple - is very complicated and time consuming. Finale developers can learn a lesson from Apple how to make things intuitive!

Or what do you think?

Oystein


Finale 2004
Mac G4 dual 1.25 | 2 GB Ram | OS 10.2.8

Back to Top

Jetcopy
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to JetcopyAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2000
Total Posts : 4091
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 6:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You can download a demo of the full version of TG Tools at "www.tgtools.de" It's available for Mac & Windows. Actually I think Finale does a good job at what it's supposed to do. It can't be everything to everybody all the time. Anytime I begin a project, I have an idea as to what I want I don't have any problem achieving my goal. I once had to create an Overture out of sections of 12 separate scores which all had different instrumentations. It was challenging, but I was methodical in what I was doing and had no problems.

As far as being intuitive. IMHO, breathing is intuitive. Nothing about computers is. I always hear that Sibelius is more intuitive than Finale. But take a look at the Sibelius forum. People have just as many questions and problems there that we have hear.

Good Luck,
Jeff
Back to Top

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill StevensAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 4753
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 7:52 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree with Jeff that you should take a look at TGTools as you get back into Finale. One can argue that these things should be in Finale, and some of Tobias' tools have indeed been incorporated into Finale, but I bet when you look at TGTools you'll see two or three utilities that you can't live without. For me it's the Staff List Manager, the special spacing for Lyrics, and easy trills.

Bill
Back to Top

Jeffrey Quick
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Jeffrey QuickAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 20
 
   Posted 2/6/2004 10:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oystein said...
However, this sounds like workarounds. I am sometimes shaking my head about Finale because things that should be and COULD BE simple - is very complicated and time consuming. Finale developers can learn a lesson from Apple how to make things intuitive!

Or what do you think?

Oystein



Well, I don't get why you would WANT all your movements in one file.. You can run consecutive page numbers without doing so. It becomes more of a PITA to work on one movement or another. The only reason I can think of to do it is if you wanted to make one continuous audio file of the movements. In that case, you'd have to add rests between movements and hide the rests, then re-number your measures (which you're probably having to do anyway.) I just have to question whether it's worth it.
Back to Top

B K
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to B KAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 165
 
   Posted 2/7/2004 12:38 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oystein said...
Thank you Billstevens and Jetcopy for good advice.

TGTools, where do I find them? (Are these tools for Mac?) Sorry, I havent used Finale for some years now... just started up again.

However, this sounds like workarounds. I am sometimes shaking my head about Finale because things that should be and COULD BE simple - is very complicated and time consuming. Finale developers can learn a lesson from Apple how to make things intuitive!

Or what do you think?

Oystein


Hi,

I completely understand your question and a bit of frustration. One expects that software would work very much the way one works with paper. However, if you did some individual files which you want to join/group into a single file, you can't just instruct Finale to join the files together - like recent Acrobat. You actually have to do lots of copying/pasting and there is a whole philosophy on how to do it, and one learns to plan ahead when working with Finale after a few years. As I know I would sooner or later want to do lots of copying/pasting, I, for example, tend to avoid measure expressions, as these can't copy properly between documents. After one did the copy/paste part of work, one needs to use different tools to make music look as if there were different movements, and Finale can do that job so well nobody really can tell the diffference, but for Finale single file always equals single movement.

There should be an article on that in the knowledge base of MM. It takes time to learn and master, and if you don't really need to do it, you may want to keep the individual movements and only forge the page numbers?

Cheers,

BK smurf
Back to Top

pgburrucker
Registered Member

Click to send pgburrucker email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to pgburruckerAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2000
Total Posts : 288
 
   Posted 2/7/2004 3:09 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would guess that one of the main problems with "knitting together" many files into one would be the handling of libraries; if you wanted to merge four files you would end up with four sets of articulations, expressions and staff styles, your lyrics would probably be difficult to keep track of because they would be imported into multiple verses, etc. I think it would be more work to clean up the mess than it was worth. I suggested this very thing to Coda in 1989, but now that I know the app. a lot better, I can't imagine how the merging of files could be realistically possible.


Paul B.
_______________________
"You can lead a horse to water,
but you can't drink one."

Back to Top

Slandrom
Registered Member



Click to send Slandrom email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to SlandromAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 1781
 
   Posted 2/7/2004 4:07 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Øystein,

Why do you want all movements in the same file? Is it for the parts to be generated at once? Personally I make them as individual files and if needed put the paper back in the printer for a second printing. If you only want the score in one file you have always had the possibility (just don´t now!!) to import other files as EPS. I tried out the clipboard way several years ago in a multimovement piece, and it was a mass! Ok, on those days you didn´t have the same control over the page layout as you have today.

Björn


2002b, (owner of 2004) MacOSX 10.3 and classic, sometimes Win98, TgTools (always the latest) QuicKeys X2, 2.0.2 Twin G4 1ghz. Apple Cinema Display 23"

Back to Top

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill StevensAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 4753
 
   Posted 2/7/2004 10:16 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You haven't said why you want your movements to be in one file. If it's a matter of wanting to send a single file, remember that you can easily change your files to pdf and combine them into one file. That works exactly like you wish Finale would work.

Is it a single playback file you're after? That doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do with individual aif files, though I'm not the person to tell you how to do it.

As Paul said above, unless the movements began with identical templates and you did not modify those in any way, such as adding expressions or custom chord symbols, the process is likely to be complicated and frustrating. It would be like wanting to drink a glass of orange juice and then a glass of milk and putting them both in a pitcher with the hopes that they would stay apart.

Bill
Back to Top

Sebastian Huydts
Registered Member

Click to send Sebastian Huydts email.Click to visit Sebastian Huydts's website.Send a Private Message to Sebastian HuydtsAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 178
 
   Posted 2/7/2004 10:22 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi,

I have all the movements in one file. Using bookmarks it is easy enough to get to the desired movement, and I like having all in one file, reducing window clutter etc.

However, back in the days of Opcode, their MIDI sequencer Vision allowed for multiple files to exist in a layout that appeared to the finder as one file, but was in fact a "suit-case" like construction. Extremely handy for different versions of the same file (for comparison), or for multiple sequences belonging to the same project. This feature has never been copied, AFAIK, and I wish Finale would.

Sebastian Huydts
Back to Top

dugfalk
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to dugfalkAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 7
 
   Posted 8/17/2009 2:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am having the opposite problem of this. I wrote a chamber work in one document (because I thought that was the most effective/only way to have consecutive page numbers) and now at the ends of each movement I have cautionary key and time signatures that I don't want. Do I need to create dummy measures and hide them?

thanks,
Doug
Back to Top

Flint
silly bear



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to FlintAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 2718
 
   Posted 8/17/2009 2:55 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
First: Holy Internet Necromancy, Batman!

Second: Just set the measure attributes (Measure Tool) to hide cautionary keys/clefs/time/whatever.


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2009, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows Vista 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs

"It is the job of copyist/arranger/composer to not only make the music clear and readable, but to also make it impossible to play incorrectly." - paraphrased from Bill Duncan

Back to Top

dugfalk
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to dugfalkAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 7
 
   Posted 8/17/2009 3:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That did not work. The cautionary key/time sig are controlled by Document attributes and so it seems like they have to be manipulated globally.
Back to Top

Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to WiggyAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 10551
 
   Posted 8/17/2009 3:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dear Dugfalk

Welcome to the forum. Can you clarify exactly what you want Finale to do? Do you want to remove cautionary key and time sigs globally, or just for particular instances.
As Flint points out, for individual measures, there is a tickbox in Measure Attributes to Hide Cautionary Time and Key signatures. Check this box in the measure before the new movement.

If you want to stop it globally, then either select the entire document and press <return>, to apply the attribute to all measures, or in Document Options > Key Sigs, and Document Options > Time Sigs, there is a tick box called "Display Cautionary sigs at the end of system".


Finale 2009b, 2Ghz iMac, MacBook, OS X 10.5.8, M-Audio Audiophile USB
M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Back to Top

dugfalk
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to dugfalkAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 7
 
   Posted 8/17/2009 3:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I got it to do what I needed! Thanks Wiggy and Flint!
Back to Top

Ronwass
Jewish Tango Nuevo Composer



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to RonwassAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1355
 
   Posted 8/21/2009 3:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Time warp.


Ron Wasserman
F2007, F2009 user since 2000
Desktop: Athlon 64X2, 1918 mb ram, XP Media Center keyboard midi to edirol to usb
Laptop: Celeron, 480 mb ram, XP home keyboard direct to usb. (not enough memory for 2009)

". . . I love music, and anything that interrupts music, I hate."
Astor Piazzolla, Central Park Concert

"Music: incredibly easy to understand on a basic level, but profoundly difficult to speak with any fluency."
Ron Wasserman

Back to Top
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
 
Forum Information
Currently it is Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:21 AM (GMT -5)
There are a total of 386,835 posts in 57,402 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 22 new threads and 175 reply posts. View Active Threads
Who's Online
This forum has 31946 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, AlanMakesMusic.
28 Guest(s), 1 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Zuill