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Wiggy
Early music: modern methods
      
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 4564
| Posted 10/31/2009 2:28 PM (GMT -5) |   | warrenbarnett said...
You are assuming a couple of things here. You are assuming that I am adding the date to the filename just for backup purposes. I add the date for several reasons, one being that I send recordings to players so that they have rehearsal play-alongs, both individual instrument and full charts. If the parts get changed, I can change the recordings to reflect the change date. But if there were cuts in the music such as shortening the performance time or adding a transition, I like to be able to go back to the longer versions if I wish to enjoy them the way they were originally written. And sometimes the changes get taken back out, and some original parts get put back in, but not all, etc, etc.
I don't use a "Backup Program". I much prefer to make copies of specific folders and save them on a separate hard drive. Just my preference. It's just the way that I like to do it. I have several backup programs that I could use, most of which came as part of some bundle or CD/DVD purchase, but I choose not to. At least I make copies, unlike so many people who don't.
Just because the file system says that I last altered a file on April 1st, it doesn't tell me that it was the February 1st version that I just went into to make a few minor adjustments, or fix an error. I still probably want it to say February 1st. If I were to rely on a backup retreival system, I might get the January 1st version, because it was last altered on February 1st.
Since I don't necessarily backup all my files every day, if I manage to totally bugger up a file because I fell asleep while copying and pasting (trust me, I have done it when staying up far to long to play on Finale) and end up with a gazillion pastes that I can't undo, I may want to go back to yesterday's version. Or sometimes you paste in something and didn't notice that you overlooked what you pasted over, and then continued, and saved, and auto saved and saved .bak all of which overwrite the previous .asv or .bak, then at least I can easily open yesterday's file and copy and paste (hopefully without nodding off).
There are lots of reasons to SaveAs with the current date, or current time, or current revision level, or operating sytem version, or all of the above. It all depends upon what you are writing, how often it gets modified (major changes), or your personal preferences.
I'm not making the assumptions that you assume I'm making! 
There are certainly good reasons for versioning. You are really just using a date in the filename as the version control, which might as easily be v1.1, v1.2, etc. You say that your filename date might be different from the modification date -- that inconsistency would worry me! I guess for me it's a duplication of data that I already have, and means I can use the filename for more useful data.
But as Prince Orlofsky says - chacqu'un a son gout.
Time Machine takes a snapshot of my drive every hour. If a file has changed, it's backed up. As a result, I have every hourly change to all my user documents at my fingertips, and I can restore any of them easily. So, even though I don't have versioning in my filenames, I have an automatic database of versions that the file has undergone, which I can scroll through (going back in time).
I would advise some automated backup, as inevitably, the day you forget to make a backup by hand is the day that you need the backup which you didn't make!
All the best
Finale 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.1
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 11/1/2009 7:47 PM (GMT -5) | |
Wiggy said...
I'm not making the assumptions that you assume I'm making! There are certainly good reasons for versioning. You are really just using a date in the filename as the version control, which might as easily be v1.1, v1.2, etc. You say that your filename date might be different from the modification date -- that inconsistency would worry me! I guess for me it's a duplication of data that I already have, and means I can use the filename for more useful data. But as Prince Orlofsky says - chacqu'un a son gout.
Time Machine takes a snapshot of my drive every hour. If a file has changed, it's backed up. As a result, I have every hourly change to all my user documents at my fingertips, and I can restore any of them easily. So, even though I don't have versioning in my filenames, I have an automatic database of versions that the file has undergone, which I can scroll through (going back in time). I would advise some automated backup, as inevitably, the day you forget to make a backup by hand is the day that you need the backup which you didn't make! All the best I made the same mistake once (or, rather, Ebony Ivory did), and I was corrected by Michel (QcC) (thanks!): Orlofsky (and also the French at large), spell it, "Chacun a son gout"! :-)
More generally, relying on file DATES alone to keep track of versions is very dangerous. Apart from utilities which can "touch" files (mentioned elsewhere in a recent posting), there's also the consideration that even copying a file or transferring it across a network can change the date, depending on the software and protocols used ...
... for example, go to a website - any website (even MM), and download a file or utility to your hard disk from Explorer/Opera/Firefox/Whatever. Now check the file date of your download - WOW, isn't it amazing that your file was snatched from the remote server at the just the instant it was created!!
Seriously, the only sensible ways to keep incremental backups to which you can revert if you need, are either to name the files with time/data info, eg "overture_2009_10_31.mus", or place them in incrementally date-named folders/zip files, eg "2009_10_31\overture.mus" or simply "2009_10_31.zip" containing "overture.mus".
Brian
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michelp
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 951
| Posted 11/2/2009 6:25 AM (GMT -5) | | Wiggy said...
But as Prince Orlofsky says - chacqu'un a son gout.
Time Machine takes a snapshot of my drive every hour. If a file has changed, it's backed up. As a result, I have every hourly change to all my user documents at my fingertips, and I can restore any of them easily. So, even though I don't have versioning in my filenames, I have an automatic database of versions that the file has undergone, which I can scroll through (going back in time).
I would advise some automated backup, as inevitably, the day you forget to make a backup by hand is the day that you need the backup which you didn't make!
All the best
(French is my mother language, so here is a quick reminder for purists and lovers of the "beau langage". Accents are there, indeed)
chacun ses goûts / à chacun ses goûts / à chacun son goût [all 3 are used]
"to each his (their) own taste(s)"
On the topic of backups, I agree with Wiggy : automated backups. Time Machine does it every hour, and I have already recommended Dropbox for instant backup of every saved modification on the web (in case the house burns...), with all versions available for restoration, with an indication such as 5 minutes ago, 1 hour ago, or date and time for earlier versions... (see screenshot).
These 2 methods have the advantages of automation : one problem less to care about.
Michel
Finale 2010a, 2009b, 2008b on a MacG5 2x2,5 Gh (2,5 Go RAM) and MacOsX 10.5.8, French azerty kb, Dolet 5. Midi interface : MOTU Midi Express XT. Roland Sound Canvas SC88-vl.Post Edited (michelp) : 11/2/2009 4:33:50 AM (GMT-6)
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 11/2/2009 9:15 PM (GMT -5) | |
Wiggy said...There's a circumflex there somewhere, too! The best method is to use version control software, of course. Doing anything manually which the computer can do automatically is missing the whole point of computers! I still think that using version numbers, rather than dates, is the best way. What if you make 2 revisions in the same day?
Of course, you're right - but not on my US keyboard! ...
... and let's not even get into where the correct Unicode code points are for this letter! 
Brian
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 11/2/2009 9:16 PM (GMT -5) | |
Wiggy said...There's a circumflex there somewhere, too! The best method is to use version control software, of course. Doing anything manually which the computer can do automatically is missing the whole point of computers! I still think that using version numbers, rather than dates, is the best way. What if you make 2 revisions in the same day?
I've never quite figured how you do version control on the version control software updates.
Actually, seriously, should you rewind your VC software to a version contemporaneous with your version archive before restoring files from it?
Brian
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 6553
| Posted 11/3/2009 12:34 PM (GMT -5) | | Saffron said...Wiggy said...
There's a !
The best method is to use version control software, of course. Doing anything manually which the computer can do automatically is missing the whole point of computers!
I still think that using version numbers, rather than dates, is the best way. What if you make 2 revisions in the same day?
Of course, you're right - but not on my US keyboard! ... ... and let's not even get into where the correct Unicode code points are for this letter!  Brian
Brian,
On my US keyboard, the circumflex is Shift+6. And using AllChars for Windows (sourceforge.net/projects/allchars) entering the u with the circumflex is easy: û
It's also at ALT+0251: û
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
WebMaster for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
NEW SITE www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm
Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 11/3/2009 1:28 PM (GMT -5) | |
Mike Rosen said...
Saffron said...
Wiggy said...
There's a !
The best method is to use version control software, of course. Doing anything manually which the computer can do automatically is missing the whole point of computers!
I still think that using version numbers, rather than dates, is the best way. What if you make 2 revisions in the same day?
Of course, you're right - but not on my US keyboard! ... ... and let's not even get into where the correct Unicode code points are for this letter! Brian Brian, On my US keyboard, the circumflex is Shift+6. And using AllChars for Windows ( sourceforge.net/projects/allchars) entering the u with the circumflex is easy: û It's also at ALT+0251: û
Entering accents in two keystrokes (such as ^u) only works if you enable the international language features of Windows - and I don't, because the same "intellisense" is a serious pain in the [fully donkey] if you're trying to write program code!
Brian
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 6553
| Posted 11/3/2009 2:30 PM (GMT -5) | | Brian,
I don't think I have International Language features enabled. Where would it be? I'll be happy to check my setup.
Do you have objections to using the ALT code as an alternative, too?
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
WebMaster for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
NEW SITE www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm
Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker." | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 6553
| Posted 11/3/2009 9:17 PM (GMT -5) | | Motet,
You can change that delay time. I increased mine to 1000ms, and it's a lot more comfortable for me. Look on the Configuration page for a lot of option settings.
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
WebMaster for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
NEW SITE www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm
Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker." | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 6553
| Posted 11/3/2009 9:21 PM (GMT -5) | | Saffron said...Mike Rosen said...
Brian,
I don't think I have International Language features enabled. Where would it be? I'll be happy to check my setup.
Do you have objections to using the ALT code as an alternative, too?
With me, it was as simple as choosing " International English", rather than " US English", or whatever Micro$oft called it, when first installing XP/Vista. Do you have an "EN" icon hiding on your taskbar? If so, that's the culprit! Brian
I'm in US English.
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
WebMaster for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
NEW SITE www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm
Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker." | | Back to Top | |
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Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2598
| Posted 11/3/2009 9:25 PM (GMT -5) | |
Motet said...Saffron, he's using AllChars--no special setting required. Rather, You press Ctrl, release it, and then u^ before the timeout (500ms?). I love it, especially for things like "più mosso." I occasionally get tripped up in vi if I'm sloppy about typing control characters, but mainly it's not an issue.
Motet, when I installed my most recent version of Vista, this was the default behaviour of all keyboard input to all applications. SFAICR, "\X" became X grave, "/X" became X acute, and "^X" became X circumflex. Assorted umlauts and other diacritics followed similar keystroke sequences.
As a Unicode lover who nonetheless lives in a mainly ASCII world, I find this sort of "It looks like you're trying to write a cedilla" stuff thoroughly patronising and annoying, and so disable it in the very earliest hours of a new OS update ...
Brian
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