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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh > New plug-in: JW Yada Yada Tremolo | Forum Quick Jump
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David Ward
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 1708
| Posted 9/21/2012 11:01 AM (GMT -5) |   | | |
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Duncan S.
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 5
| Posted 10/3/2012 12:08 PM (GMT -5) | | Jari:
I signed up to the forum after about a decade of lurking to thank you for making this plug-in. My music tends to include a lot of tremolo markings, and for years I've been complaining to all my composer buddies about how Finale can never seem to position them correctly. Depending on the size of the score, it would sometimes take me multiple full days of work to find and reposition all of them.
Upon finding your plug-in, I had it integrated into all of my score-prep Finalescript routines in minutes. I spoke to my wife about it at length over that night's dinner. I emailed all of my Finale-using friends, all of whom were amazed. It was, no joke, one of the most significant changes to my workflow since I came to Finale in 2001. I can not thank you enough for this and whatever voodoo you used to make it work.
Having said all of that, I almost feel guilty to report a positioning "bug", but I assume it might be of some interest to you. As someone reported earlier in the thread, I have a small issue when the plugin is applied to off-beat entries preceded by a rest. I have attached before and after screen shots, the latter of which shows how the tremolo marking on the first note is repositioned to slightly collide with the notehead.
Once again - thank you so many times over.
Image Attachment :
DS - Before JW.png 275KB (image/png)This image has been viewed 18 time(s). | Image Attachment :
DS - After JW.png 288KB (image/png)This image has been viewed 20 time(s). | | |
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Jari Williamsson
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2775
| Posted 10/4/2012 3:30 AM (GMT -5) | | | |
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Duncan S.
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 5
| Posted 10/4/2012 8:38 AM (GMT -5) | | Jari: Your response time is amazing. Wow! I can verify that the update seems to address the issue with beams over rests. Many, many thanks!
Once again, this is an almost revolutionary plug-in insofar as Finale is concerned. In the last few years, I've witnessed a gradual acceptance of off-centered tremoli in published music that has been engraved in Finale, even among top publishers. This is, I imagine, a direct result of Finale's default positioning and the amount of work necessary to address it. Sibelius, of course, does not have this problem, and more than once I found myself questioning whether I should make the switch for this reason alone - granted, these moments of weakness usually came around repositioning the 4000th tremolo marking in a score, but still. On tight deadlines, I've even asked my wife to take over repositioning duties while I caught a bit of sleep. I realize that off-centered tremolo markings are perhaps not the best reason to feel such anguish, but when Finale's default positioning of them renders a note ilegible (as it often does), it's kind of a big deal.
I will, naturally, report any further problems that might arise. I do have one question, although I'm not sure it's even possible to address within Finale's architecture. Is there a way for the plug-in to detect whether a repositioned tremolo marking results in a wedge, and tweak its position accordingly?
Finally - Is there a location where we can make a donation to you? Your work is critical to the Finale community, and I'd like to be able to offer more than kind words as thanks.Post Edited (Duncan S.) : 10/4/2012 7:50:52 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Jari Williamsson
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2775
| Posted 10/4/2012 9:47 AM (GMT -5) | | Duncan S. said...
This is, I imagine, a direct result of Finale's default positioning and the amount of work necessary to address it.
There is no settings that will work, so the default settings has to either be slightly wrong in all circumstances, or correct in some circumstances but totally wrong in others. To be able to get it right with auto-positioning in the Articulation Tool, the user would need to create separate articulation definitions for something like:
* Double-whole notes
* Whole notes
* Half/Quarter notes + beamed 8th notes
* 8th notes with flags
* 16 notes with flags
* 32nd notes with flags
* Beamed 16th notes
* Beamed 32nd notes
* ...and so on
When I've worked on this plug-in, I think I realized what the basic problem is with the articulation tool: the Articulation Tool tries to be "smart" rather than "exact". And tremolo markings will never work with any default settings if MM just tries to "fix" the current implementation.
Make sure to send in your experiences regarding manual tremolo marking editing (or other kinds of editing that just waste time) to MM!
Duncan S. said...
I will, naturally, report any further problems that might arise. I do have one question, although I'm not sure it's even possible to address within Finale's architecture. Is there a way for the plug-in to detect whether a repositioned tremolo marking results in a wedge, and tweak its position accordingly?
It's possible, Patterson Beams does it, but I think I remember that it was quite a lot of work for Robert to find out the exact the beam angle. This feature might be work intensive and it's something I can't look into right now, but I absolutely understand the need for it ("JW YY Tremolo" was a rather quick hack). I'll write it up!
Duncan S. said...
Finally - Is there a location where we can make a donation to you? Your work is critical to the Finale community, and I'd like to be able to offer more than kind words as thanks.
Thanks, quite a few users have asked about that. I might set something up in the future.
Jari Williamsson
Windows XP, Pentium 4
2.40 GHz, 4 GB RAM
www.finaletips.nu - The Finale Productivity Tips site | | Back to Top | |
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Duncan S.
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 5
| Posted 10/4/2012 11:47 AM (GMT -5) | | Jari Williamsson said...
There is no settings that will work, so the default settings has to either be slightly wrong in all circumstances, or correct in some circumstances but totally wrong in others. To be able to get it right with auto-positioning in the Articulation Tool, the user would need to create separate articulation definitions for something like: <snip>
Even having make several different tremolo markings in the past as you suggested, it doesn't address the frequent need to lengthen the stem to accomodate the articulation. Hack or not, JWYY does exactly what it's supposed to do, and it does it well. No word of a lie, I'm still excited to use it even a week after discovering its existence. Tremolo markings had become one of the little banes of my musical existence.
Jari Williamsson said...
It's possible, Patterson Beams does it, but I think I remember that it was quite a lot of work for Robert to find out the exact the beam angle. This feature might be work intensive and it's something I can't look into right now, but I absolutely understand the need for it ("JW YY Tremolo" was a rather quick hack). I'll write it up!
Yeah, when I asked the question I was wondering about whether you could leverage Robert's developments in that area for wedge detection, but I fully understand that it's a labour-intensive task. Honestly, just getting the tremoli centered and stems adjusted takes care of 95% of the work.
Jari Williamsson said...
Thanks, quite a few users have asked about that. I might set something up in the future.
Please do. Especially with Tobias' plugins slowly dying from lack of updates, we as a community need your talents to continue addressing areas where MM falls short. Even if you were to stop development tomorrow, the work hours you've saved so many of us deserves compensation.
If I might ask one more question on a subject separate from JWYY - how feasible would it be to develop a plugin that would automatically create and position slashes on beamed groups of grace notes? This is another of the areas that Sibelius handles automatically (albeit rather poorly), and takes hours of work to manually implement at the end of score preparations. I'm aware that the practice of adding slashes to beamed grace notes has fallen out of favour among engravers, but it's still part of my (and many other composers') aesthetic. Please understand that this isn't me asking "Jari, Jari, please do this, Jari", I'm mostly just curious as to whether Finale's architecture could even support it. | | Back to Top | |
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Jari Williamsson
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2775
| Posted 10/5/2012 11:09 AM (GMT -5) | | | |
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