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Wlgold
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 1733

Posted 12/24/2016 11:21 AM (GMT -6)

I hardly ever use lyrics so this may be a dumb question. When I start a measure with a lyric and an expression, the two invariably collide. In older versions of Finale I think there was a setting under Document Options that prevented this, but I don't see it in Finale 25.2. Is there some way to go back after the fact and un-collide everything without adjusting each one manually? The vertical collision plugin doesn't seem to help.

Finale 2014-5, GPO 5, JABB 3, Garritan Steinway Basic, Garritan World Instruments
Windows 10, 64 bit
Intel Core 2 Quad, 8GB RAM

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 12/24/2016 11:24 AM (GMT -6)

I've not known of such a setting. There is a setting to keep syllables from colliding with each other, but not for collisions colliding with expressions.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2

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ebiggs1
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 722

Posted 12/24/2016 11:33 AM (GMT -6)

I don't do lyrics either until I was asked to put a piece in to Finale for publishing. I saw the same problem and was told by the publisher it was OK to put hairpins and dynamics on top of the staff.

Music makes the difference!
Finale 2014.5 *-* Finale 25
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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 12/24/2016 11:35 AM (GMT -6)

Not only okay, but standard for vocal music.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 12/24/2016 1:16 PM (GMT -6)

Zuill said...
Not only okay, but standard for vocal music.

Quite. In a vocal score, pretty much everything apart from the lyrics goes above the stave. This can even include articulations and triplet brackets/numbers on upward stems.

Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 12/24/2016 2:00 PM (GMT -6)

So what do you do if you have multiple lines, like SATB, each with their own lyrics? I have seen some published score where they put them over every staff, with the resultant crowding and collisions. Is it acceptable to put them only above the top staff?

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
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Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 12/24/2016 3:33 PM (GMT -6)

Generally, you need to leave enough space between staves for lyrics of the staff above and the expressions of the staff below. It's just that because you don't want stuff between the notes and the lyrics, you might as well put it on the top, rather than below the lyrics.

Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 12/24/2016 4:11 PM (GMT -6)

That's what I thought. But it can really limit what fits on a page.

Derrek
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347

Posted 12/24/2016 5:47 PM (GMT -6)

That's why choral music frequently uses a smaller staff size.

Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
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ttw
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 776

Posted 12/24/2016 5:50 PM (GMT -6)

Mike Rosen said...
So what do you do if you have multiple lines, like SATB, each with their own lyrics? I have seen some published score where they put them over every staff, with the resultant crowding and collisions. Is it acceptable to put them only above the top staff?

I suppose the traditional solution would be to publish part books rather than a score.

Finale 2014.5, 25
GWI, GPO4, GPO5, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

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Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 12/24/2016 6:01 PM (GMT -6)

That works with instruments. You put your fingers there, and the right sound (usually) comes out. I think singers (speaking as one, myself) like knowing what the other parts are doing, and picking up the occasional pitch from them.

I don't think I've ever seen a vocal part score.

Derrek
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347

Posted 12/25/2016 8:24 AM (GMT -6)

Well, they used to exist. Have you ever seen (images of) those oversized velum books where each part was oriented in a different direction for singers that gathered around the one hand-copied book to see their part? The Middle Ages/Renaissance was a different world.

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 12/25/2016 1:42 PM (GMT -6)

The sort of music that used to appear in part-books (or choir-books or table-books) didn't really have much call for dynamics and other expressions!

I always hated the Durand & Cie Vocal Scores, which had multi-measure rests and no organ part, save for a few cue notes.

Here's a 1660 printed part.

Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Derrek
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347

Posted 12/25/2016 3:29 PM (GMT -6)

I suppose after trying to figure out how to fit syllables to the notes, dynamics and expressions would be the least of their medieval worries.

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