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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Next Finale will support ReWire | Forum Quick Jump
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Dan Powers
Registered Member
      
Date Joined May 2000
Total Posts : 1343
| Posted 6/28/2016 3:36 PM (GMT -6) |   | | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
 
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 6/28/2016 5:19 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
| Posted 6/28/2016 6:33 PM (GMT -6) | | Don't care, other than we can stop hearing people whine about it incessantly with every new release.
woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.
If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read
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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist
Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
| Posted 6/28/2016 9:25 PM (GMT -6) | | Zuill said...
Let's not jump to any conclusions. When pdf import was announced, a revolt occurred and the feature was cancelled. Let's see what happens after this most recent announcement. Possibly it will be a threat to someone and the feature will also be nixed.
Zuill
That pdf debacle still rankles me.
What are those composers ;) going to sue the makers of SmartScore or PhotoScore? I highly doubt that seeing as they have been out for over a decade each now.
It would have been nice if MakeMusic would quit neutering itself over fairy dust threats. We shall see.
Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.2.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil
BMus, MM (Musicology) | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 6/28/2016 11:57 PM (GMT -6) | | And if they did choose to reverse the decision, then the guy would pull his work from SmartMusic, again.
Finale is really in a lose-lose situation, as far as public perception is concerned. But since I use the full version of SmartScore, the whole argument is moot. Pulling the scanning operation matters about as much as removing the native Print to PDF function, since they both (don't) work equally well. Now we may get fewer postings concerning how bad scanning is, so maybe that's an upside.
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html
Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker." | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 6/29/2016 12:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Removing the pdf feature was a MakeMusic Brexit. Fortunately, it didn't cause a stock market crash.
As far as ReWire, the recording and movie industry might be up in arms about it, as it will be a huge threat to their livelihood if Finale users try to make a movie that would put them out of business.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Credo
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 6/29/2016 9:08 PM (GMT -6) | | Smart move, and long overdue. Rewire will be very welcome here!
1. Focus on Notation/Engraving itself, and ease of use.
2. Focus on optimizing Finale so it doesn't keep at least one CPU core going full throttle at pretty much all times. I could be wrong, but I assume much of this inefficiency is due to an archaic 32bit VST host that was designed when a 2 core Pentium Core Duo was considered pretty high end stuff.
3. In the 'short haul'...I'd even be OK with ditching the WAY outdated built in Finale plugin host, and bundling something like Bidule with Finale (perhaps with a more modern looking set of skins). It would seem they already have at least some sort of relationship with Plogue seeing as so much of the Finale playback engine revolves around ARIA.
We're already having to resort to third party hosts to get into 64bit, or VST3 plugins. VST2.4 is aging out fast, and it's getting more difficult to find modern plugins in a 32bit 2.4 dll format.
I'd love to see a way to communicate those VST commands between Finale's playback/expression system and ARIA inside a rewired Bidule instance (I.E. auto-load programs via the Score Manager). Could OSC (supported by Bidule, Reaper, and more) be used for this sort of VST command bridge?
My thinking is that by separating the 'score module' from the 'audio' playback engine all together....Finale developers could focus on notation and engraving.
Finale could come in different versions at different price points.
Examples:
1. Just the score module with full Rewire support of as many MIDI, rtpMIDI, and OSC ports as one likes. This could be sold as an 'extension' for whatever third party DAW or Host an end user might already have and wish to use.
2. A version bundled with a special Finale optimized version of Bidule as the host, and the full slate of Garritan/ARIA based Finale sound libraries. Technically it would be using rewire and OSC under the hood, but would be set up in a way that's as easy to use as the current VST host, with the 'power features of Bidule' deeper down in the UI for people who want/need that.
In the long-run, Finale is going to need to start looking at full VST3 support. Dorico is going to benefit from full scale 'individual note expression'. I.E. What we are now doing with channel CC messages, VST3 can already do independently with individual notes. That's going to open up a lot of doors in terms of what they can do with cutting, pasting, and dragging things around while retaining any expression data assigned to individual play-back elements.
Maybe, just maybe, a short term divorce of Finale from any 'built in' play back engine at all would be beneficial.Post Edited (Credo) : 6/29/2016 9:56:26 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 6/29/2016 9:45 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Credo
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 6/29/2016 10:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Mike Rosen said...
Credo,
This has been suggested many times over the years: a Finale Notation version, and a Finale Playback version. But nothing has ever come of it.
I do believe you. At this point Finale has more competition on the horizon than ever before, and it has a good deal of 'catching up' to do in terms of playback and user friendliness.
I don't know what kind of resources they have at hand to come out with the next 'cutting edge' platform....so I'm just 'resounding' all the old suggestions that could keep them very much alive and in the game.
1. Pull the built in host out of Finale, and replace it with some variant of Bidule that comes with the Finale bundle and bridges in nicely (with the existing Finale expression/playback/translation system). That at least gets folks access to 64bit AU and VST3 plugins, and people could keep right on using the excellent Garritan libraries with very little if any noticeable change in their established 'work flow'. It seems to me that all Bidule would need to do this, is some sort of bridge to parse the VST commands between Finale and ARIA instances open in Bidule (I.E. Tell an ARIA instance running in Bidule to load the Violin Solo KS program into slot 1).
2. Put a lean and mean power user Scoring module on the market that cost a considerable amount less than the others, and make sure it has all the tools to sync up and communicate with the DAWs and Hosts of user choice....
3. Optimize existing Finale code (for engraving/layout/printing), and make it easier to use (also with tablets and the like).
4. Start working VST3 support into the code. That opens the doors to keeping expression data bound to individual notes, as opposed to everything on a MIDI channel. (Easier drag and drop, copy/paste possibilities will grow exponentially given that capability).
Dorico has the advantage of being launched by Yamaha/Steinberg...both of which have buckets full of cutting edge sound engines to build upon, while also happening to own many of the proprietary industry standards (I.E. VST). That dev crew really can 'focus on the engraving', while leaving the sound engine stuff to larger, long and well established, 'audio/MIDI' engineering teams.
It's going to be very difficult to compete with those sound engines, pay off royalties and or wait in line for the 'protocol' dev kits, AND match or beat price points....and if Sibelius isn't on their top game, they might eventually learn the same lesson. They also keep ignoring the plug in host and play-back engine, while insisting on building everything around the one they have, while refusing to build 'full sync' technologies into what little ReWire support they offer (No assignable rewire MIDI ports at all, stereo audio only, and it is not full duplex, only has partial support for synchronization with external hosts).
Another idea for long range consideration might be....
To start pushing for a Linux/BSD variant, with a long range goal to gain independence from proprietary protocol royalties for the 'base' versions of Finale. It'd have to be a long and patient plan...but people favoring Linux distros might prove to be a market worth tapping. Particularly if Finale wishes to garner favor with 'Music Educators'.Post Edited (Credo) : 6/29/2016 11:10:26 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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