|
|
| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Online Manual - Finale 2009 | Forum Quick Jump
|
 |
rbratton
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 390
| Posted 12/1/2008 4:50 PM (GMT -6) |   |
jbonner said...Why are the page numbers never correct in Adobe Reader? For example, if I want to read the page on "Keyboard Shortcuts" (listed as p.864) I have to add 23 to get the correct page (which is indeed 864). If I try to open page 864 by typing the number in the box or Go To, I only get page 841. Why is this? It's an Adobe problem? John
Adobe Reader counts every page in the file. Finale doesn't number the cover page and the table of contents, but starts numbering with the page AFTER the TOC. Since there are 23 pages for the cover page and the TOC, to use the GO TO feature in Reader you will have to account for those 23 unnumbered pages by adding 23 to any page number listed in the documentation (as you have discovered).
randy
Randy Bratton
Finale 3.0.6 - 2009b
Full GPO, JABB, CoMB, Full KONTAKT 3, SONAR 8 Producer
Windows XP Pro SP3
Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz/4GB RAM
E-MU 1820 PCI Audio Interface
| | Back to Top | |
|
rbratton
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 390
| Posted 12/2/2008 12:00 AM (GMT -6) | |
jbonner said...Well explained. So would it not make more sense for Finale to add 23 to all the page numbers in the contents. It's a very large file and they could then advise readers to use the "Go To" option as opposed to scrolling through the document? John
Just going by the name of the file, it looks like the PDF file was designed to be printed so you'd need the TOC and index page numbers to match the numbers at the bottom of the pages.
Finale 3.0.6 - 2009b
Full GPO, JABB, CoMB, Full KONTAKT 3, SONAR 8 Producer
Windows XP Pro SP3
Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz/4GB RAM
E-MU 1820 PCI Audio Interface
| | Back to Top | |
|
Mark Johnson
Registered Member
 
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 93
| Posted 12/2/2008 6:45 PM (GMT -6) | | Greetings,
My name is Mark Johnson, and I am the documentation editor responsible for the new HTML help system. I have held my tongue on these forums over the past couple years, allowing the manual improvements to speak for themselves. But, I see there is still some confusion and apprehension to embrace the new system by a vocal minority and I sense an obligation to clarify some misunderstandings so that the remainder of the Finale community is not misled.
Please forgive my refusal to respond to your sentiments pro or con. I only aim to rectify factual errors or misrepresentations. My time is better spent making further improvements than conducting a lengthy discourse here. That said...
Saffron said...
Oh for the good old days when the manual was a fully-indexed, searchable PDF!
This is not correct. The former Finale User Manual was a collection of approximately 60 PDFs. In order to conduct a search of all the PDFs simultaneously, one was required to perform an advanced search, choosing a specially prepared PDX index file. This was not an intuitive approach, requiring a detailed "How to Use the Finale User Manual" section just to perform a complete search. (This section remains, but is not required for a simple operation like a complete search).
The new index was imported directly from the FrameMaker source files. The index available under the Index button is identical to the old index (except for the necessary content revisions required over the past two years). There is a popup solution required for some entries by the new system which is being phased out, but this is only an interface concern. (By the way, the old "Visual Index" was revived from the old purple manuals and introduced as an interactive Flash file. Geez, no one seems to have noticed all this.)
ttw said...
searching it [the old PDF manual] still is better than using the explorer-oriented version. Of course, the pdf isn't linked to the program.
In addition to the points mentioned above, the search function in the HTML system (by clicking the "Search" button in the lower left) has the following advantages over the old system.
1. It is a comprehensive search of all Finale documentation material, including the User Manual, Tutorials, and Context Help. The old PDX was not comprehensive, and only searched the PDFs. Yes, there was content available in just one or the other, despite my efforts to resolve the differences completely. (The new single-source authoring environment solves this completely.)
2. The search results are now ranked using complex ranking algorithms, with the most relevant result (often) listed first. (It is being improved constantly. An additional filter and other enhancements may be possible for future versions.)
rbratton said...
What was nice about the previous PDF manual was that it was mostly hyperlinked--if you found a topic in the TOC or Index, you could click on the page number and you'd be taken to that page. Plus there were links to the Contents and Index on each page, if I recall correctly.
The new HTML manual is also extensively hyperlinked, although they needed to be redefined by hand (which took me several months). The new TOC and Index were both imported from the old PDF manual. Click the "Browse Sequence" tab in the lower left to see the current manifestation of the old TOC. I put a "Contents" button on the bottom of virtually every topic. Even so, the navigation pane offers identical navigation functionality and more.
jbonner said...
Why are the page numbers never correct in Adobe Reader?
The current PDF of the User Manual was not intended for on-screen use. It was intended to be printed for users who prefer to use a printed manual (who do not care to purchase the one MakeMusic offers for an additional charge.) Using the available PDF for on-screen viewing is not recommended. Not only are the page numbers incorrect, but it is based on the original Finale 2009 release (which is antiquated), and it does not benefit from the extensive search/index capabilities and interactivity of the HTML system.
Saffron said...
With Adobe's stuff, I can load (say) the entire chapter on Speedy Edit, and search across multiple pages for any instance of (say) "tuplet".
You can search by HTML page (such as the entire Encyclopedia chapter on Speedy Edit) by using the text box above the window, or by using your browser's Find capability. Results are highlighted. Yes, some topics were split up, but the ranked results are a fair trade-off, especially considering the future possibilities.
I know some of you liked the PDF files, but they were simply not a practical solution from an authoring or end-user perspective. The content from the User Manual and the Context Help needed to be edited separately, and the technology did not support the interactivity and online possibilities we require for continued improvement into the future. From a user's perspective, I spared no expense to retain or improve all functions of the old PDF system, while adding improved search and indexing capabilities.
I invite you to review the "How to Use the Finale User Manual" topic on the welcome screen, and sincerely hope you will grow to benefit from the many improvements I have introduced over the last few years. I know the new system isn't perfect, and I always welcome suggestions for improvement.
I also invite you to watch for continued documentation enhancements into the future. Although I cannot make any promises, I think some of the more profound benefits of this system will soon become apparent.
Best regards,
Mark
Mark Johnson
Documentation Editor
MakeMusicPost Edited (Mark Johnson) : 12/2/2008 5:49:22 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
|
Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 4504
| Posted 12/2/2008 7:48 PM (GMT -6) | | Thank you, Mark, for your interjection and explanation. I understand your sentiments, not least because I share your interests, because I, too, have written and maintain some significant software manuals, totalling around 1,500 pages for one product alone, as part of my "other" job.
However, in one very important respect, I disagree with you ...
Without a shadow of a doubt, you old PDF-style documentation is preferable (IHMO, of course) to the new HTML stuff. Acrobat, simply, is a way better OLR than Internet Explorer. Faster, more consistent across platforms, and ultimately WYDGWIWWUGTS (What You Documention Guys Wanted Is What We Users Get To See). Not to mention, of course, that many of us (myself amongst them) choose to use browsers other than IE (Opera, Firefox, ...), and the "experience" of reading IE-centric documentation on these other platforms is considerablty less than perfect.
Even though I know the move to HTML will be one-way, as so many other things in Finale - good and bad alike - please, at the very least, can you make sure the "printed" page numbers in your downloadable PDF tally up correctly with the actual ones? That way, at least those of us who still prefer Acrobat to a web browser, could actually make sense of the Table of Contents and Index. Better still, reintroduce the hyperlinks in the downloadable version, and colour screenshots, and let us users choose ...
Brian | | Back to Top | |
|
ttw
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 776
| Posted 12/2/2008 9:26 PM (GMT -6) | | | I would like to add my thanks to Mark for presenting the rationale for the changes in the manual. I also have to agree with Saffron that the previous PDF versions were superior. Mostly, I just note my behavior. With the PDF version, my first instinct was to go to the manual when I had a problem. Now, I either just noodle around with the program or sign on here to see if my question has been addressed. The help feature has slipped to being a third string player.
I have no real explanation, but it seems more productive to avoid the manual.
Based on 40+ years of consulting with computer users, I have found out that (in general) there is no such thing as an "upgrade." There are only "bugfixes" and "changes." Bugfixes are a good thing. Changes often problematic. I have read studies (on user behavior) showing that while users do lean changes, they generally become only about 75% proficient over the original version. (This, I have attempted to change programs that I was responsible for only if the change gave better than 25% improvement at the user level.)
Finale 2008 (2007, 2006) Windows XP Media Edition
Gateway 5014 | | Back to Top | |
|
Saffron
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 4504
| Posted 12/3/2008 4:47 AM (GMT -6) | |
Daz said...
I still cannot understand why there is such a kerfuffle over this.
To get help, press F1 (standard windows keystroke). A bit easier than the PDF version. Not only that, but the help is context sensitive. Spookily enough, pressing <F1> brings up help in Finale 2005b too. Context sensitive, at that. And often, that is all I need - but when I want to read in more depth, I fire up Acrobat and read the manual.
I can quite see why the help subsystem has moved from "WinHelp" to IE - Microsoft more or less forced everyone's hand by omitting WinHelp from Vista. I've done exactly the same myself with WIN-PROLOG, which now ships with a large collection of HTML files which respond to <F1>, and are context sensitive.
But I still ship my main manuals as PDFs, because I can lovingly format them, ensure that everything is presented in the clearest possible way, using hand-chosen fonts for clarity and ease on the eye: very much the same things all you music engravers do with Finale, only for text. There is no way my stuff would look so good in HTML, or be so consistent across a range of computer screen resolutions and different browsers.
Simply, reading large amounts of carefully laid out text in Acrobat is a much more pleasant experience than trying to read the same "content" in a browser - especially IE - and therefore I regret MM's abandoning of the PDF format in favour of HTML for its main manual.
Brian | | Back to Top | |
|
Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 12/3/2008 11:08 AM (GMT -6) | | They're both good, in their own ways. But to me, the big advantage of a PDF style "book" is that you may find other information that helps, even if you weren't looking for it. Serendipity. How many of us older folk grew up looking for something in the encyclopedia for a school report, and wound up spending the evening reading the articles ahead of, and behind, what we were supposed to be learning? Or looking up something in a dictionary?
And just as a sidebar: Yesterday, I was having trouble with repeats. I went to the Knowledge Base, and dutifully entered PrintMusic, "Technical Support" and "repeats." I got No answers available.Same with "endings". It wasn't until I removed the search category "tech support" and replaced it with "All" that I got an answer. Maybe there needs to be a category for "how do I..." or something similar. I guess a question isn't considered tech support, but that is the closest grouping available.
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
WebMaster for the Seattle SeaChordsmen
www.seachordsmen.org
NEW SITE www.specialmillwork.com/finale_tips.htm
Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker." | | Back to Top | |
|
Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
| Posted 12/3/2008 11:18 AM (GMT -6) | | I'd just like to say that I'm not particularly bothered either way. The HTML is hyperlinked, indexed and searchable. The old PDF help may well have been hyperlinked, indexed and searchable. As long as they both work, the format is largely irrelevant. As I've said before, the searching and indexing in the HTML seems to work fine.
If they don't, OSes these days have Search by Content features, so you can use the OS to search the help files if you can't get to it from the built-in search.
Brian, if you have Acrobat (or other PDF-manipulation app), you should be able to Define logical page numbers in the PDF print-manual that correspond to the folios, and these will then be used in preference to the physical page numbers in PDF viewing apps.
Finale 2009b, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.5, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk | | Back to Top | |
|
rbratton
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 390
| Posted 12/12/2008 2:29 PM (GMT -6) | |
Saffron said...
Perhap's this confusion is partly the OP's fault, for naming this topic the "Online Manual - Finale 2009" ...
Brian
I, too, mistakenly thought the HTML help was similar to Microsoft's where it could come from either Microsoft online or locally.
While I have a fondness for the PDF hyperlinked help file, I do use both the HTML help and the PDF printed doc, which ever best serves my purposes at the time.
Thanks Mark for your response!
randy
Randy Bratton
Finale 3.0.6 - 2009b
Full GPO, JABB, CoMB, Full KONTAKT 3, SONAR 8 Producer
Windows XP Pro SP3
Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz/4GB RAM
E-MU 1820 PCI Audio Interface
| | Back to Top | |
|
MetaLark
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 39
| Posted 12/21/2008 12:25 AM (GMT -6) | | Patrick Schönbach said...Michael Wing said...
Thanks, everyone. I called MakeMusic and they helped me through it. Since I'm networked through the school, my IT guy has to come back and flip a couple of switches to allow Finale to see my browser and show the manual through it. I have the same problem. What did you change? Do you also have to run Finale with administrator rights?
Apparently nobody ever got around to answering Patrick Schönbach's query.
I am having this problem, too. In the Finale program, anywhere I press the help button, I get the browser screen for maybe one second, then it disappears. This happens whether IE or Firefox is my default browser. However, I can find the Help Manual's folder on my C: drive, click on Finale.htm, and it comes up just fine (with either IE or Firefox).
Michael Wing's solution won't work for me; I'm on a home computer, and I don't have an "IT guy."
~Finale 2004b~Windows XP~composing vocals (including chant) for small church choir with guitar accompaniment~ | | Back to Top | |
|
MetaLark
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 39
| Posted 12/22/2008 12:26 PM (GMT -6) | | Wow! At least four Finale 2009 problems--including this one--were solved when I changed my Windows account to Type=Administrator.
One must be logged on as an Administrator to register and authorize Finale 2009.
After I changed to Administrator, I was able to:- Register and authorize the program (Before this change, the "Authorize Now/Later" screen popped up every time I started the program.)
- Set up my program options (Before, my options would disappear every time I exited the program.)
- Access the User Manual via the HELP buttons (Before, the help screen would disappear after one second.)
- Play the music via the Play control buttons (Before, the program would abnormally terminate whenever I clicked the play button.)
I had been advised that browsing the Web was safer when browsed from a Limited account, and so I had set up two accounts for myself. I used the Administrator account to install software, and the Limited account to run programs, get email, and access the Web.
However, I'm finding it such a hassle to switch back and forth--placing needed information in the Shared folder before switching, and now, having so many issues with Finale--that I think I'll just go back to one user account. (Presumably Kaspersky will watch my back on the Web anyhow.)
~Finale 2004b~Windows XP~composing vocals (including chant) for small church choir with guitar accompaniment~ | | Back to Top | |
|
DCrocker
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2000
Total Posts : 511
| Posted 12/22/2008 4:07 PM (GMT -6) | | Finale's help system is seriously broken. That simple.
Dean | | Back to Top | |
| 48 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page : 1 2 |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Tuesday, December 19, 2023 8:22 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2023 |
|
|