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bvstudios
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 156

Posted 12/9/2015 8:57 PM (GMT -6)

So I was listening to Anderson's "Sleigh Ride" by the Boston Pops a couple of nights ago, and it struck me to wonder two things- how to notate it correctly so a trumpeter will understand, and secondly, how to notate it so GPO will know what I am trying to convey. I went looking through my scores and the one I have to hand for Sleigh Ride is not for a full orchestra, so no help there.

Anyone ever had any luck with it??

It's too late for this season, but it would be nice to have that particular trick in the belt should it ever come up.

Thanks

K M Frye

Finale 2012c, release 13, PM 2011, 2010, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2000

GPO4, WORLD, JABB3

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Flint
silly bear

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151

Posted 12/9/2015 9:51 PM (GMT -6)

Indicate "horse whinny" (half-valve)and use a different notehead... tie the notes as appropriate. Silence the playback using one Jari's excellent plugins, or use the Speedy Entry edit frame and de-select playback.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 2943

Posted 12/10/2015 3:04 AM (GMT -6)

I seem to recall the original notation also uses a downward-sloping wavy line from the notehead as well as the "Horse Whinny" instruction.

Gareth J. Green

Fin2014c
Windows 7

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 12/10/2015 10:06 AM (GMT -6)

Playback through GPO4 will most likely be problematic, if even possible. I defer to the experts on that.

[PS] You might be able to use a sample of a real horse whinny.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

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"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 12/10/2015 9:16:00 AM (GMT-6)

gogreen
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 1618

Posted 12/10/2015 11:20 AM (GMT -6)

Try this: www.freesound.org/search/?q=horse+whinny

Arthur J. Michaels

/www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels

Finale 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011b.r2, 2014d (currently using 2014d)
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 12/10/2015 12:14 PM (GMT -6)

How would one trigger a WAV file sample to play from within Finale? I've never tried it. I can see adding it in a DAW, but that's another issue.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

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Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Mark Adler
MakeMusic, Inc.

Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 364

Posted 12/10/2015 12:32 PM (GMT -6)

I've performed the horse whinny in "Sleigh Ride" more times than I care to count over the years. As I recall, it is typically notated over a couple of measures using x noteheads on either end with a horizontal wavy line attached to a sloping wavy line.

Mark F. Adler
Notation Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

Image Attachment :
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Mark Adler
MakeMusic, Inc.

Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 364

Posted 12/10/2015 2:05 PM (GMT -6)

Hi Charles,

If you wanted to use a sound that was not part of a library, like a horse whinny, you could import an audio file into Finale and position it to play back at the appropriate time like I have done in the attached files. If you open this up in Studio View, you'll see the imported MP3.

Mark F. Adler
Notation Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

File Attachment :
Horse Whinny.musx 86KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 269 time(s).

File Attachment :
Horse.mp3 69KB (audio/mpeg)

This file has been downloaded 138 time(s).

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 12/10/2015 2:51 PM (GMT -6)

I don't hear the audio. In my experience, it is linked to an mp3, but since I don't have the mp3, the link is broken. Or am I missing something?

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

tbmartin
Yuba-Meister

Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 1684

Posted 12/10/2015 3:27 PM (GMT -6)

In my sax quartet version, I indicate it as a series of "laughs", borrowing from the term used in the 1920s for various Six Brown Brothers charts, including "Laf-n Sax". Standard noteheads, upward Pitch-Bend smart shapes before the notes, and "Laughs---------" above the section. I've never bothered trying to adjust the playback.

Terence
Saxophone Quartet Arranger
Using Finale 2003a, Windows 10
http://bit.ly/TerenceMartinSaxArranger

Mark Adler
MakeMusic, Inc.

Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 364

Posted 12/10/2015 3:51 PM (GMT -6)

Hi Zuill,

You are quite right, the MP3 needs to be present, my oversight. It is there now.

Mark F. Adler
Notation Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 12/10/2015 3:54 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks Mark, I knew there must be a way.

Zuill,

It didn't sound for me either at first, until I went to Studio view and double clicked on the clip. In the Attributes dialog, I just clicked on "Select..." and navigated to where I put the MP3 clip provided by Mark, even though it said it was pointing to the correct path.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

32 GB RAM

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD system disk

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 12/10/2015 2:57:30 PM (GMT-6)

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 12/10/2015 3:59 PM (GMT -6)

I tried it before Mark posted the clip. That's why it didn't work for me. It should find it if it is the same folder.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 12/10/2015 4:23 PM (GMT -6)

Well, I had to reload it after all. And in doing so, it moved it to bar 1. So I had to set it to bar 5 again.

Zuill

P.S.: Aha. doing it as Charles suggested preserved the starting measure. I've never had to reload a file mid piece. All the work I do starts from the beginning.

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

gogreen
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 1618

Posted 12/10/2015 5:38 PM (GMT -6)

Charles Lawrence said...
How would one trigger a WAV file sample to play from within Finale? I've never tried it. I can see adding it in a DAW, but that's another issue.

As I recall, if you use Aria's import feature with a .WAV file, Aria will automatically prepare it for playback. I could be wrong, but that's the best I can remember my using the feature at the moment.

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 12/11/2015 10:21 AM (GMT -6)

gogreen,

While you are correct in that if you import a WAV file sample into the ARIA player, it will attempt to convert it to playback by creating the necessary SFZ file. In the case of the horse whinny sample, it is not an appropriate sound to use for such a purpose. The ARIA player is used for playing a sample in a chromatic fashion, up and down the scale, in various note durations and chords. There is no call for a whole note C7b9 horse whinny or a dotted eighth Eb whinny! smilewinkgrin I tried it and it works to an extent, but, I believe that adding the sample as an audio clip is really the approach to take here.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

32 GB RAM

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD system disk

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 12/11/2015 9:30:03 AM (GMT-6)

Jeff B
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 31

Posted Yesterday 11:09 PM (GMT -6)

Flint and Gareth Green are correct.

Any trumpet player who's been around longer than a week and a half has heard it and knows what to do.

I've had similar issues while trying to instruct young composers and arrangers who are writing in various jazz styles, usually as classroom assignments. Getting the note values more or less correct and adding a notation like "Be-Bop Style" or "Dixieland" is usually enough. If not, it's likely an experience issue with the player.

And, there's the collision between technology and artistry. You'll spend a couple of days trying to get a sample to sound right, when a good player just knows what to do as soon as he sees it.

(Aaahhhh, it's good to be old and experienced....)

Jeff Boultinghouse

Finale 2014.5 (and everything back to Finale 95)

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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted Yesterday 11:59 PM (GMT -6)

Even better to be young and experienced!

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted Today 12:29 PM (GMT -6)

Zuill said...
Even better to be young and experienced!

Zuill

At this point, I'd be satisfied with just young. I've enjoyed making most of my mistakes!

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
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