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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > MIDI THRU on Transposing Instruments | Forum Quick Jump
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Fred G. Unn
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 1268
| Posted 11/22/2013 9:57 AM (GMT -6) |   | | This is precisely why I leave MIDI Thru turned off. I have the freestanding version of Aria with a piano sound loaded set to automatically start upon booting the computer. Whenever I hit the keyboard it just sounds like a piano, not for example, a baritone sax way out of range if I'm working in that staff. | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 11/24/2013 11:39 PM (GMT -6) | | If I want to play a written Clarinet part (or any Bb instrument), and hear the transposed note, I:
Am in normal view, not Concert Pitch
Change the transposition on my keyboard to -2 (half steps)
Go to hyperscribe, and choose Tap input.
Choose to listen to the MIDI tap source, and play what I want (I use the low C on my keyboard)
Enter the notes with the tap.
In this way, I hear the sounding pitch as I enter the written pitch. If I am building a score from transposed parts, I can play in using the metronome, and hear all the other parts in concert pitch along with the correct concert pitch of the notes I am entering. But I am reading off the transposed part.
Any transposing instrument can easily be entered from transposed parts this way. It keeps me from going nuts (if that is not too late already).
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014 now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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rpmseattle
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 419
| Posted 11/25/2013 12:11 AM (GMT -6) | | HBegun said...
Unfortunately, that doesn't help my situation. Using "Input Sounding Pitches" lets me hear the note corresponding to the key I'm pressing, but transposes it on the score. For example, if I'm entering a B flat clarinet part, I press and hear a C but the note entered is a D.
Yes, in Sibelius, if you want the notes on your keyboard to always correspond to the same pitches in the staff, you can view and enter notes in the score in concert pitch.
For me, in a transposing score, "Written Pitch" (not "Sounding Pitches") is the desired behavior in Sibelius. Perhaps this is because I play transposing instruments... and because I frequently work from existing transposed parts to build new scores. When I press "A" on the keyboard, I want to see "A" in the transposed staff.
I also want the playback during midi thru to be the same pitch sounding as it is when the file is playing back - written pitches sounding at concert pitch - For example, if I'm entering a B flat clarinet part, I press C and the note is entered as C, but the note sounds as Bb (just as it does when the score is played back).
Personally, I never want to hear any staff in a different key from where it actually sounds in concert pitch, either during playback (which would be bizarre and bitonal) or during note entry. If for some reason I might want to enter music up a whole step from the rest of the score, and not only see it in the score this way, but hear it up a whole step, I would set the score to concert pitch before entry to hear this offset.
Finale 2012, 2011 | Mac Pro 8 Core Xeon | OSX 10.6.x
www.musicprep.com/makemusic
www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/category/finale/Post Edited (rpmseattle) : 11/24/2013 11:21:31 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 11/25/2013 3:29 PM (GMT -6) | | The workaround I posted earlier is a viable option for those of us who enter via MIDI keyboard. I know it isn't for everyone, as it doesn't work for QWERTY of mouse input.
Years ago, I had a different workaround involving in muting the output for that instrument within Finale, and then setting up my keyboard (with built in sounds) to play transposed pitch while I heard Finale play the concert pitch. It seems to me I tried my present workaround then but don't seem to think it worked. Maybe I just didn't persist. Or, maybe things changed in Finale since then. I believe I was using Finale 97 at the time, or maybe even 3.7.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014 now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 11/25/2013 4:08 PM (GMT -6) | | Hyperscribe only. I've thought about the other as well, but hardly worth all the trouble.
Zuill
P.S. There is a way to do it in other entry methods that I posted some time back. it is a bit kludgy. It requires using VST, as it relies on how transposition gets stuck in the on mode, so one can calculate the playback pitch bend amount for various transposition intervals. I is not perfect and requires patience. I have tested it, but don't use it on regular basis. Hyperscribe in click mode while hearing other transposed instruments, and entering from a transposed part, is he only situation that really needs it. That's probably why MakeMusic included that functionality there (or the ability to use it). Maybe it was just a programming accident, but I'll take it as a "feature" for me.
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014 now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" Post Edited (Zuill) : 11/25/2013 3:14:31 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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HBegun
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 1149
| Posted 11/25/2013 8:24 PM (GMT -6) | | rpmseattle said...According to the American Psychological Association website, only 1 in 10,000 people have true "absolute" pitch: www.apa.org/monitor/feb05/absolute.aspxI have no idea if that statistic is accurate, but I thought it was interesting.
That could explain why I'm usually the lone voice on this side of the issue!
Over the course of my training and career I've known several other people who possess AP but it makes sense that the occurrence among musicians would be much higher than in the general population. In all our cases, the ability to recognize (or produce) pitches without a reference was always there. We never did anything to develop it. (For this reason, I've never considered it a talent, a skill, or any other kind of achievement. It's just something that I've always been able to do.) My first piano teacher recognized and tested me for it when I was 5 or 6 and for the most part it has come in handy (I can do take-downs very easily). On occasion, it gets in the way of things, transposed entry in Sibelius being a case in point. I have also found that as I get older (I'm in my mid-50's now), the accuracy is diminishing, something I was forewarned about several years ago by someone who was going through the same thing. I sometimes "hear" pitches as being a half step higher than they turn out to be.
Just to be clear, I've never advocated that Finale shouldn't change the way it handles this. Quite the contrary, I think it should be changed since this is such a common request. I just want to make the case that the current method isn't necessarily wrong for everyone and that it be retained as an option.
Howard Begun
Finale 2014
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 11/26/2013 12:39 AM (GMT -6) | | I lost the Golden Ear award in school when another student transferred in mid year who had absolute pitch. To that point, I had the highest ear-training score. Then, it was all over.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014 now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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