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David J Taylor
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 29

Posted 5/12/2013 9:59 AM (GMT -6)

Hi

Excuse me if this has been asked before but does anyone else get annoyed at the alert dialog:

"Do you want to save changes you made in the document [...]? Your changes will be lost if you don't save them."

when no changes have been made? It may be a tiny niggle but I often open documents to see if they might be useful as templates, have a quick glance, only to be confronted with this stupid question. Grrrr. Or does it only happen to me? Making this pointless question?

Rant over.

David

10.8.2, 24" iMac 2.8 Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig ram, Finale 2012c

Post Edited (David J Taylor) : 5/12/2013 10:16:23 AM (GMT-5)

Flint
silly bear

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151

Posted 5/12/2013 10:30 AM (GMT -6)

The latest version of Finale automatically runs the file check when it opens a file, so technically changes HAVE been made when you just open and look at a file.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

David J Taylor
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 29

Posted 5/12/2013 10:45 AM (GMT -6)

Flint said...
The latest version of Finale automatically runs the file check when it opens a file, so technically changes HAVE been made when you just open and look at a file.

OK, so it's just me that's annoyed?

I still maintain it's pointless, thinking, "do the programmers actually use the program?" Additionally, other programs don't have this behaviour and quite rightly too.

Anyways, I've emailed MakeMusic too, about this.

David

10.8.2, 24" iMac 2.8 Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig ram, Finale 2012c

Christopher Smith
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2290

Posted 5/12/2013 10:59 AM (GMT -6)

Microsoft Word does it to me quite a bit as well, probably for the same reason. I open a doc that a student has sent and when I close it I get the question.

Christopher Smith

Mac 2 x 2 Ghz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6.8
Finale 2011b and 2012c r.13
or
Mac iBook G4 733 Mhz
OSX 10.4.11
Finale 2010b r.1

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 5/12/2013 12:04 PM (GMT -6)

We discussed this here recently. It's not the automatic file check that's causing it, because if you turn that off, it still happens. It's not only annoying, it's dangerous, because if you get used to thinking the file's not really changed, you might end up discarding some change sometime. I guess you could always save, but then you're throwing away the information about when you really did modify the file.

My guess is that this was some programmer's quick and dirty way of dealing with a bug wherein a change was not noticed and the file could be closed without prompting.

Please file a problem report--the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And anyone else reading this who doesn't like it.

I've never had a problem with MS Word. I suspect your student's docs were created with an older version, and Word is asking to save it in the newer format.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools

Windows XP

David J Taylor
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 29

Posted 5/12/2013 12:09 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks Motet. I must have missed both where this was discussed (I did search, honest) and where to file a problem report. I couldn't see anything specifically related to notifying MakeMusic of glitches.

David

10.8.2, 24" iMac 2.8 Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig ram, Finale 2012c

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 5/12/2013 12:14 PM (GMT -6)

You submit a support request to MakeMusic on their main site's support pages.

FWIW, I used to get it all the time in Word, too. So glad I don't use it anymore.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2012c, 2.6Ghz 2012 MacMini 16Gb RAM (10.8.3)
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

David J Taylor
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 29

Posted 5/12/2013 12:19 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks Wiggy. I looked there and found the 'ask a question' section, which is what I used.

David

10.8.2, 24" iMac 2.8 Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig ram, Finale 2012c

Jack Clark
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 376

Posted 5/12/2013 12:34 PM (GMT -6)

Yes, that Finale question annoys me, too, and for the same reasons you gave, David. It would be a really nice plus if the programmers were able to change that. And merely examining the document by scrolling through it or flipping pages should not count as a "change," either.

Jack

Finale2012c
(upgrade from SongWriter2010)
Mac OS X 10.5.8
MacBook 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM

"A man must love something very much to practice it not only without hope of fame or fortune, but without hope of doing it well." -G. K. Chesterton (paraphrase)

David J Taylor
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 29

Posted 5/12/2013 12:37 PM (GMT -6)

Woohoo! Good man Jack!

10.8.2, 24" iMac 2.8 Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig ram, Finale 2012c

Peter West
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 4272

Posted 5/12/2013 2:18 PM (GMT -6)

If Finale reopened a file at the place it was last closed then changing position in the score should be counted a change, but it does not. I have to say, this annoys me more than the question about saving. I hate opening a 400 page score and always defaulting to page 1.

I know we can create bookmarks, and even make one that is at the last posotion worked, but it is common with most apps these days to reopen where it was closed.

Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
Mac 2.66GHz Intel Quad, 4GB RAM /OSX.8.6 /30 inch cinema display+20 inch Cinema Display
Finale 2008 2009 2010 2012/Logic Pro Studio

Michael Mortilla
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 2378

Posted 5/12/2013 3:14 PM (GMT -6)

Some of this will probably change in the new version as Lion and Mountain Lion will (optionally) take you to the last place you were working in. Whether or not this changes the question on closing a file you just opened remains to be seen, but it has always been that way in Finale as long as I remember (which sometimes is about 3 minutes... LOL)

Os X 10.8.3 Mac Pro 8 core; 20GB RAM.

Finale 2012; Digital Performer 8 [64 bit];

MIDI Life Crisis

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 5/12/2013 6:13 PM (GMT -6)

Three minutes? Wow!!!

I'm at the stage where I'm constantly thinking about the hereafter. I walk into a room, and think, what did I come in hereafter?

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

WebMaster and bass for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c on Mac 10.8.2
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 5/12/2013 10:13 PM (GMT -6)

I use a single bookmark and macros to set and jump to it, which helps. Not as good as automatically remembering, of course.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools

Windows XP

Writer of Music
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848

Posted 5/13/2013 5:26 AM (GMT -6)

Finale even produces the "do you want to save changes" alert regularly when you save and want to quit Finale, cmd-S, cmd-Q. What could possibly have happened between the two keystrokes to invoke Finale raising that question? Definitely, that is annoying.

Finale 2012c.r13
Mac OS X 10.8.3, 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

David J Taylor
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 29

Posted 5/14/2013 3:50 AM (GMT -6)

Hi lads and lasses. MakeMusic responded positively to my little annoyance:

MakeMusic said...
Hello David,

Thanks for contacting MakeMusic customer support.

I can see what an annoyance this would be if I were in your position. I will certainly submit this as a feature request to our product development team so they implement this in an upcoming version of Finale.

Please feel free to respond to this case if you have any further questions about this issue.

WoM, submit your observation too, it all helps. I've given them positive feedback about their response, which was very quick and helpful and I've also mentioned the command-s, command-q, 'do you want to save' silliness.

Regards
David

10.8.2, 24" iMac 2.8 Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 gig ram, Finale 2012c

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 5/14/2013 12:30 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks for reporting it. If they were being entirely forthright, they should call it a "bug fix," not a "feature request." It used to work properly long ago. Not hard to implement: you set a flag somewhere whenever you change something, then check that flag before closing.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools

Windows XP

KennethKen
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2570

Posted 5/14/2013 12:46 PM (GMT -6)

Printing a file also triggers this message.

Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012c, Core i7 2700K@3.50Ghz, 8GB Ram

http://www.AmisMusicalCircle.com

Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc.

Michael Mortilla
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 2378

Posted 5/14/2013 12:51 PM (GMT -6)

Actually, printing in most Mac programs prompts that question. I always thought it was asking to verify that the current printing setup was the one you wanted saved with the document.

Os X 10.8.3 Mac Pro 8 core; 20GB RAM.

Finale 2012; Digital Performer 8 [64 bit];

MIDI Life Crisis

KennethKen
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2570

Posted 5/14/2013 6:56 PM (GMT -6)

Michael Mortilla said...
Actually, printing in most Mac programs prompts that question. I always thought it was asking to verify that the current printing setup was the one you wanted saved with the document.

But it doesn't save the printer setup. On Windows the default printer setup is always the first thing you see no matter how you last printed, saved and closed the file.

It would be great if it did save the printer setup (some windows programs do) and allowed for a different saved setup for the parts vs the score.

Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012c, Core i7 2700K@3.50Ghz, 8GB Ram

http://www.AmisMusicalCircle.com

Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc.

Michael Mortilla
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 2378

Posted 5/14/2013 7:02 PM (GMT -6)

As I said... I "thought" it did. I really don't know the answer and frankly, I wish I did. It's always concerned me that something might have been changed so I usually say DON'T save if I know I haven't changed anything. THe other thing is, if the file opened and I don't change anything but hit OK to SAVE I truly fear that the next time I'll get the dreaded -19 or -179 error (or -whatever error) and my file is corrupted or something was, in fact, changed I didn't know about. You'd think after decades of computing something like this might have been fixed.

Os X 10.8.3 Mac Pro 8 core; 20GB RAM.

Finale 2012; Digital Performer 8 [64 bit];

MIDI Life Crisis

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