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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Finale 2014 is a nightmare. Most disappointing update in a long time | Forum Quick Jump
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Marc Bischoff
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 11/9/2013 9:03 AM (GMT -6) |   | Why why why why? This is the question I have constantly when using the demo of F2014. Is this what marketing departments do nowadays? Rush programmers into releasing unfinished software? Shame on them.
Why is Finale 2014 so slow? I opened a large orchestra file (34 staves) to put F2014 to the test. Conclusion? Unworkable. Scrolling with mouse-wheel has a 2sec delay. Every single time. It's so bad, it reminds me of the first Finale version on OSX. Simply dreadful and unworkable.
Why is the focus when editing expression on the description-field and not text-fiels as it used to be? Why change that? Why why why? it drives me nuts.
Why do things that obviously enhance productivity don't get included? Like as search field in the expression selection window. Why? Am I the only one having big expression libraries, every time scrolling through lists to find a specific one, or scribbling expression numbers on a piece of paper to remember them faster. I mean seriously. A simple search entry field. How hard can it be?
Instead we get magnetic palettes? What was wrong withe old ones? Nobody EVER complaint about them. I at least didn't even notice there was something wrong with them. Instead I would have loved to see more shortcuts. Finale is the most mouse-intensive program I use. I program my now shortcuts in the keyboard-preference window, but why do I have to do that. Compare the extensive (customizable) shortcut list of a program like Logic Pro, Protools or Cubase and see what I mean.
Now that would be productivity enhancement.
The new sound engine sucks big time. It stutters, doesn't run smooth at all, it has "ghost tails" when switching tools. And the new mixer isn't new at all. Just in a new coat of paint. Not all like previous versions of Finale.
Why change something that was good and make it worse?
Meanwhile: the hugely annoying font bug (discussed elsewhere on this forum) is still there. Why why? 3 years sinds the last update.
There are so many clear and user-demanded features and bugs that we would be happy to pay for to get them added or fixed.
I am startled why a company would make these kind of choices. Finale users are pro's that get dollars for hours. Every hour wasted on waiting for Finale to scroll or redraw the screen (did I mention that it is dreadfully slow?) is a direct loss in money.
And I didn't mention the countless crashhes I has, only trying to open the program for the first time. When Finale 2014 ttys to scan au-plugins it crashes countlessly. Why? Why? Other programs I use scanthem just fine, and report if a plug in is not validated.. Why the crashes? (I talking like 10-15 crashes!!!)
F2014 also crashes every time I try to delete a user generated expression- category. Why? Why? all that was working fine?
So disappointed. Happy I didn't pay for this. | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 11/9/2013 10:36 AM (GMT -6) | | Ouch.
Which version of Finale are you currently using?
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014 now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Vaughan
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
| Posted 11/9/2013 11:15 AM (GMT -6) | | Marc, I'm sorry you're having such a bad time. FWIW, there are users who don't seem to be having those issues, so some of them might be things in your setup. Believe it or not, I haven't had Finale crash on me (yet) so there are several things you could try, like posting a crash log here (or sending it to MM) or creating a new user account and try running Finale from there. I thought that scrolling had actually been improved, compared to earlier versions. One thing that does slow this version down noticeably is when something is selected. I just tried it out on a 28-stave score and the delay when moving to a next page in Page View was about ½ second. If I change to the measure tool and select everything, scrolling speed does indeed slow down to about 1 second per page. It does speed up the scrolling, therefore, to be a neutral tool like the Select Tool and not to have anything selected. I sympathise completely about the focus of the expression edit window. I've often wanted to edit or create an expression and have started typing without looking (as I was accustomed to do), only to discover that I'd typed it into the description field. You've inspired me to put in a case to MM. That shouldn't be too difficult to change. And there has been a general outcry in the forums about the palettes. I can imagine that MM will try to return that functionality in a maintenance release. I've also noticed some stuttering in the sound engine. That can be a matter of a RAM allocation or a Disk Pre-caching setting, but I haven't had the chance to experiment with it yet. I suppose the point is, why should we have to? At any rate, there have been a lot of positive reactions to 2014 and MM is gathering the negative ones, so hopefully these issues will be addressed soon. I'd still try the new user account, though, and see how Finale behaves there. Good luck!
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 2014, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.9
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2
Amsterdam | | Back to Top | |
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Michael Mortilla
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 2378
| Posted 11/9/2013 2:22 PM (GMT -6) | | I totally get the frustration and empathize completely with those having issues. No doubt they are real. But the way to approach the problem is (IMO) not to make your *first post* a total bitching session and instead, try to find answers to your questions. Add to that the fact that different people are experiencing different problems and some folks are not experiencing ANY problems. That would lead me to believe (know, actually) that SYSTEM and SOFTWARE conflicts are at the root and MM cannot possibly test out Finale for every possible combination of hardware, software and hacks that might exist on a system.
Yes, the app should (and will) work as required, but give the company and the members here a freakin' chance to fix the problems (or find out what conflicts exist in a particular system) before pronouncing the app and the update dead on arrival. That's what tech support is for (and MM has great tech support!) and why these forums exist. I just find it a bit disingenuous to make your first and one and only post so scathing and not provide any information on what system or machine you're using? Is he on OS 9 on a G4? Maverick on a new 12 core? Is he beta testing other software that might hack into his system?
His answer(s) to those questions might get a positive response, but a blanket post of all the things that don't work in isolation is counter-productive. And citing things that others have complained about but that he himself may or may not have experienced just seems like piling on, IMO. If he wants to get help and be treated fairly, he needs to calm down and provide a few clues. Otherwise it's a non-issue, IMO. As they say in Dragnet: "Just the facts ma'm, just the facts."
Os X 10.9 Mac Pro 8 core; 20GB RAM.
Finale 2014; Digital Performer 8 [64 bit];
MIDI Life Crisis | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 11/9/2013 3:02 PM (GMT -6) | | MakeMusic is in good company. Microsoft is in hot water over Windows 8.1 for rushing it to market. Apparently there are a lot of problems and the accusation is that they didn't do enough testing.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014 now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 11/9/2013 4:32 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Jamie Pettit
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2013
Total Posts : 11
| Posted 11/9/2013 6:01 PM (GMT -6) | | Marc Bischoff said...
Is this what marketing departments do nowadays? Rush programmers into releasing unfinished software?
First, programmers don't decide release dates, project managers and marketing execs do, and these people are incentivized (in some cases lavishly so) to hit pre-determined dates.
But...yes, the company I work for does the same thing. Known bugs are earmarked for an immediate service pack before a release goes out the door because corporate demands release by a date determined before the initial release project is even scoped. Then we spend a fortune on our four (!!!) levels of tech support trying to keep unhappy customers from jumping ship...money that would have been better spent producing a solid release, IMO.
That said, if we as consumers want software with fewer defects, we must be willing to pay more, and be willing to wait longer between releases. Are we prepared for this? I think so, especially judging from the angry posts from the pros who make their living using Finale. Would you pay more for an upgrade if you knew you could install it and go right back to work?
Jamie Pettit
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Finake 2008
GPO - Finale Edition
Win7 32 bit
Pentium Dual Core 2.7 gHz
4 gigs RAM
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The perceived object...is not a sum of elements to be distinguished from each other and analyzed discretely, but a pattern, that is to say a form, a structure: the element's existence does not precede the existence of the whole, it comes neither before nor after it, for the parts do not determine the pattern, but the pattern determines the parts: knowledge of the pattern and of its laws, of the set and its structure, could not possibly be derived from discrete knowledge of the elements that compose it.
That means that you can look at a piece of a puzzle for three whole days, you can believe that you know all there is to know about its colouring and its shape, and be no further ahead than when you started. The only thing that counts is the ability to link this piece to other pieces...
Georges Perec - Life: A user's Manual
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Marc Bischoff
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 11/9/2013 6:04 PM (GMT -6) | | Ok. Here I am again. Of course I expected axxxxstorm. And surely I asked for it. A sincere apology to anyone who felt personally offended by my "first" post. It wasn't my intention, I can assure you that.
Having said that, I think making assumptions about a person, a person's computer skills or knowledge of technology in general without knowing facts or backgrounds is not the way to go either. But that might be just the way things are on this forum.
You see: to use procedural-technicalities as a counter argument is as old as the court-room. If someone make a point about something, referring about "the way that someone said it" is not making the problem less real. It is a nothing less than a diversion tactic. And here we are: most of us are talking about what's wrong with my post and not what we really should be talking about: what's wrong with F2014!
I am on this forum for as long as I have internet. Reading mostly and from time to time giving advice to others. I simply couldn't remember my password. And I decided to open a new account. It seemed easier. So, that's for the "first post" thing.
I consider myself a pro user of Finale using it since Finale 98, and being a loyal customer to MakeMusic all these years investing many euros into this software that I consider one of the foundations of my business, which is being a full-time musician, composer and arranger. I consider Finale to be superior to any other notation program I ever used (or tried to use) and my knowledge of the program is substantial. Although having said that I am not a wizard like Jari, and do often join the forum or Jari's brilliant site to find solutions I cannot come up with myself.
Software like Finale are complex and each individual's system is a special case. I am very aware of that.
I have installed countless updates over the past years including software for studio recording which handles an enormous quantity of data in and out and makes often big demands on the computers graphic card as well. Finale cripples at tasks that shouldn't cripple a modern day Mac Pro with plenty of RAM. I can use the same system I own, for complex audio routing and multi track recording in my studio. Dealing with plenty of audio i/o plus involving midi information being handled wirelessly.
Finale 2014 has trouble scrolling(!) a simple full score in scroll view (funny name if you think about it, that it doesn't scroll at all!)
If I switch from page view to scroll view I can literally see my tool palette redraw. As if it was in slow motion. Really?!?
Logic Pro X was my previous major update and everything I said about Finale 2014 is also true fro Logic X. Worst update ever.
Unfinished software that simply slows down the pro- user. In my opinion a victim of the marketing departement as well. Finale always gets released in the autumn. So it's version number sounds "ahead of time". Well if programming is anything like art is, it is never ready because of a deadline, but it is ready when it is ready.
Hey, but what do I know.
The forums are full of people complaining that Finale crashes on them when installing. Some of them never even seen it open yet.
My trial version did open eventually but after 20 crashes in a row, some of them were severe freezes though which managed to crash my otherwise rock-solid sound card (Metric Halo) which let to a full system reboot. Just because of F2014. In EVERY world that is a bad start for a piece of software. I only mentions the other users experience to confirm, I am not alone with this problem.
So what does MM want me to pay for: magnetic palettes, a recoded version that works so slow I can't even do the simplest tasks in a workable manner, and hairpins that latch to the beat?
I can easily come up with plenty of features we would like to see in a new version of Finale and we would be happy to pay for.
A couple of them I mentioned in my first post.
Please. I am not insulting the forum. I want MakeMusic too understand that we are all pro users. We want pro features. Not cosmetic changes and more bugs instead of less.
This is not a specific problem I have with my system. And I don't have a specific question about: how do I do this or that.
I want MM to read this and I want as many people as possible to chime in and give them the feedback they deserve: this type of update is simply not what we need.
Cheers and thanks for the comments.
Marc
Pianist | Arranger | Composer | Educator | Studio Owner |
Finale | Logic Pro | Mac Pro | OSX.9 |Post Edited (Marc Bischoff) : 11/9/2013 5:13:12 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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David Ward
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834
| Posted 11/9/2013 6:07 PM (GMT -6) | | Apart from the inconvenience of having to have a new user account on my system to get it to work (an issue I've described at exhaustive length in another thread) I'm finding Finale 2014 rather pleasing. I like the fact that I can change the length of a hairpin in a linked part without b---ing up the score: that seems an immense improvement. There are a number of others, too. At some point I'll find the (I hope temporary) loss of the cross stave shortcut annoying, and I gather from this forum that there is a (again I hope temporary) loss of some of the tremolo options that used to be available through the full TGTools.
Of course, I'm moving up from F 2010, but even if I were moving from F 2012, I think I'd notice a number of useful improvements, albeit with one or two annoying losses that I expect (hope, anyway) will be dealt with in due course. All in all, I'm glad to have Finale 2014.
Now, if only I can (with MM tech support help) get it to work in my main user account …
David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward
Finale 2010b
Mac 10.6.8, 10.8.5
full TGTools
Finale 2014 downloaded | | Back to Top | |
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Philip.
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 11/9/2013 6:07 PM (GMT -6) | | Here is a list of some known issues in Finale 2014:
forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=410956
Here is a link to what's new in Finale 2014:
www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2014Mac/Finale.htm#Finale/What_s_new.htm
Here are the interface changes in Finale 2014:
www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2014Mac/Finale.htm#Finale/Interface_Changes2014.htm
In the past, as best I can recall, MakeMusic has typically included a list of bug fixes as well as new features. Is anyone aware of where, or if this list exists? It would be helpful in determining which "bugs" have been fixed in Finale 2014, and which might remain.
Finale 2008b, 2009b, 2010b, 2011c, 2012c
Sibelius 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3
Logic Pro 9
Mac 10.6.8
2x2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
14 GB RAM
www.nycmusicservices.com/ | | Back to Top | |
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