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David Ward
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834

Posted 11/15/2012 4:10 PM (GMT -6)

As I said on the forum a little while ago, when beginning an unexpectedly long and contentious thread, I've been (unusually for me) typesetting a score by another composer, now dead. I have decided I'd rather like to add some possible metronome markings, based on my own assessment of the piece, as the original tempo markings are not always very clear in their intentions. eg One of the seven movements starts with the tempo indication Espressivo, and with no dynamic marking until a pp and a ritard. 19 bars later.

I'd like my editorial indications of metronome tempo (and this one instance of added dynamics) to be grey rather than black. Is that possible from Finale when printing to PDF via Apple Preview?

If it's not easy to do this, there are plenty of other solutions that I do know how to achieve: it's just that I'd rather like this one.

David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b
Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 11/15/2012 4:17 PM (GMT -6)

I don't think so: There's nothing in the Text menu for % shades or colour of text.

The use of brackets is the most commonplace, and to my mind clearest, indication.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2012c, 2.6Ghz MacMini; 2Ghz MacBook, (10.8.2)
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

tbmartin
Yuba-Meister

Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 1684

Posted 11/15/2012 4:40 PM (GMT -6)

Wiggy said...
...
The use of brackets is the most commonplace, and to my mind clearest, indication.

I'll second that. It's even used in books, magazines, newspapers, etc. when quoting:

"I don't like that [explitive deleted] music!"

"I like Mozart, [J.S.] Bach, and Cage"

Terence
Saxophone Quartet Arranger

Using Finale 2003a, Windows XP Pro and Vista

David Ward
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834

Posted 11/15/2012 5:01 PM (GMT -6)

Thank you both: yes, square brackets do seem to be the most common way of indicating editorial dynamics etc, although I'm not certain that any shape of bracket always unquestionably shows that metronome markings are editorial. However, I've just been reading through an edition of Bach keyboard music with its editorial additions in grey, and I think perhaps I rather like that.

None of this will be a problem with the quartet who next year should be performing the piece I've been typesetting, as there'll be plenty of opportunity for discussion of all these details. However, I'm expecting PDFs of the score and parts to be stored in a national (Scottish) archive, so it will be best to make clear what I have added. A brief editorial essay at the beginning may help.

David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b
Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

tbmartin
Yuba-Meister

Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 1684

Posted 11/15/2012 5:16 PM (GMT -6)

In printed text, the square bracket is pretty universally understood as being an editors addition/explanation.

In music, however, I think I've always seen it with a brief note in the beginning explaning the marking. It's certainly safer that way! I can't remember if I've seen parentheses () or curly brackets/braces {} used for editor marks, but others may well have.

I've never seen the "editor marks in gray", but I can see how that might catch on given advances in printing and computer technology these days.

Terence
Saxophone Quartet Arranger

Using Finale 2003a, Windows XP Pro and Vista

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 11/15/2012 5:28 PM (GMT -6)

Maybe in gray and in bracket!
If you don't have InDesign you can add it in Scribus (free) and change the color there.

Finale 2011c,OS X 10.6.8 ~~OS X 10.5.8~~ / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express 6 / InDesign CS4 / MAX 6 / SuperCollider / CSound
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

David Ward
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834

Posted 11/15/2012 5:46 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks OCTO. I seem to have Scribus, although I've never used it. I'll maybe try to work out how to do what I want there, although my quick look at the software just now makes it seem a bit daunting!

Here attached is a page from the Bach I mentioned, with numerous grey editorial additions. This would appear to be a rather basic educational edition, which I think I may have picked it up in New Zealand, judging by the price label on it .

The advantage of the grey seems to be that it is quite easy to ignore completely!

David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b
Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

Image Attachment :
Image Preview

Editorial grey.jpeg 572KB (image/jpeg)

This image has been viewed 502 time(s).

madyson
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 53

Posted 11/15/2012 7:31 PM (GMT -6)

Put a dummy note in a layer you won't use otherwise
Define the color text as Technique text and assign it to the bar
with [Edit Expression Assignment] set it to only show on the dummy's layer,
hide the note,
go to [Program Options - Display Colors],
check [Layer colors apply to all layer items]
set the dummy's layer color to gray (or whatever color you like) and all other item's color to black

when you print, check [Items to Print: Display colors]

don't forget to reset the colors

(I use this trick frequently, so I made a script to set/reset the colors)

using Finale since version 2.6.3

currently:
- Finale 2009c on AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1500+ with 768 MB RAM / Windows XP home

Post Edited (madyson) : 11/15/2012 7:30:35 PM (GMT-6)

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 11/15/2012 8:09 PM (GMT -6)

Another option is a grey shaded Shape Expression used as a highlighter. A note at the beginning could say "editorial markings shaded in grey".

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Image Attachment :
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Shaded Editorial Marking.png 13KB (image/x-png)

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OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 11/16/2012 2:58 AM (GMT -6)

I would agree with David that printing gray makes sense.
Remember that publishing houses don't use gray because of the extreme costs for one more color, and not because the gray color is not good.
Yes, bracket or parenthesis - it is cheeper.

Finale 2011c,OS X 10.6.8 ~~OS X 10.5.8~~ / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express 6 / InDesign CS4 / MAX 6 / SuperCollider / CSound
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 11/16/2012 4:11 AM (GMT -6)

1 is created with InDesign
2 with Inkscape

Finale 2011c,OS X 10.6.8 ~~OS X 10.5.8~~ / MacBookPro & iMac 20" / Logic Studio 8, Peak Express 6 / InDesign CS4 / MAX 6 / SuperCollider / CSound
INGLISH iz not maj modr-toung!

File Attachment :
1.pdf 73KB (application/pdf)

This file has been downloaded 413 time(s).

File Attachment :
2.pdf 33KB (application/pdf)

This file has been downloaded 656 time(s).

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 11/16/2012 4:19 AM (GMT -6)

OCTO. said...
Remember that publishing houses don't use gray because of the extreme costs for one more color, and not because the gray color is not good.
Yes, bracket or parenthesis - it is cheeper.

Er... on press, grey is usually achieved by halftone dots of Black ink -- the same way it is on your laser printer. There's nothing more expensive about using black dots rather than solid black. I'll admit, if you were to use a second plate with a grey ink, that would increase the print run costs somewhat.

Also: why use InDesign or Scribus to change the colour of the text? Surely Illustrator (or Inkscape) would be more suited to the task? With Illustrator, you can directly manipulate and edit the individual items on the page of a PDF; With InDesign, you would have to load the PDF page of music as an image -- I'm not sure you can directly edit the contents of the image?

"This is me helping."

Finale 2012c, 2.6Ghz MacMini; 2Ghz MacBook, (10.8.2)
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

David Ward
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834

Posted 11/16/2012 6:29 AM (GMT -6)

I think madyson probably has the answer for me in this instance.

However, all the answers give me food for though and I'm very pleased to see them. Zuill suggests something which I may find useful in future and OCTO's illustration with Inkscape suggests that it may be worth my while downloading that.

David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2010b
Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

madyson
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 53

Posted 11/16/2012 9:03 AM (GMT -6)

With Acrobat (not Reader, the full one), you can change the color of text in the PDF itself:
Tools - Advanced Editing - TouchUp Text Tool, select the text you want to change, rightclick - Properties, Text Fill

M.

using Finale since version 2.6.3

currently:
- Finale 2009c on AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1500+ with 768 MB RAM / Windows XP home

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