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Jolora
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 684

Posted 9/27/2016 6:31 AM (GMT -6)

Has anyone else had problems with F2014.5 after being client-serviced by Microsoft to upgrade Windows 10 to the AU version?

Since the upgrade. F2014.5 is crashing on me many times per day. One of the key times I can (almost) predict when it will crash is when my Bluetooth speaker disconnects for inactivity. It will also crash when changing tools, or toggling between Finale and another app.

When it crashes, it tries to send a report to MM, but this has never worked on my systems. It recovers the open file(s) fine, and it never loses, say, the last few edits; the recovered files are always 100% up to date.

Its just annoying as hell. I configure Finale in a split screen config with another app, and I'm getting tired of setting that up over and over again (Finale 2014.5 is not remembering window size at all).

Joe

Finale v1 through 2014.5
JW Plugins; TG Tools (Full)
Garritan GPO 4; GPO 5; Garritan COMB 2; Garritan JABB 3
Anvil Studio 2015 midi editor
PhotoScore Ultimate 8
Band-in-a-Box

Windows 10 64-bit, Intel i7-4771, 32GB RAM, 500GB SSD (C Drive)

gogreen
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 1618

Posted 9/27/2016 8:18 AM (GMT -6)

Yes. I've had several problems after the update. Many Windows issues, but for Finale 25, I lost my registration--that required a phone call to MM to straighten it out--and I lost my Garritan libraries' registrations. I just dragged the keycards onto the Aria player again to fix that.

Arthur J. Michaels

/www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels

Finale 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011b.r2, 2014d, 2014.5, Finale 25
Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM, Windows 10 Home x64
Garritan COMB2, GPO4, GPO5, Aria Player 1.872, Audacity 2.1.2
Dell 2408 WFP, 1920x1200
M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
Casio WK-3000
M-Audio AV40 monitors
AKG K-240 Studio headphones
Brother MFC-L2740DW printer

Jolora
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 684

Posted 9/27/2016 9:03 AM (GMT -6)

gogreen said...
Yes. I've had several problems after the update. Many Windows issues, but for Finale 25, I lost my registration--that required a phone call to MM to straighten it out--and I lost my Garritan libraries' registrations. I just dragged the keycards onto the Aria player again to fix that.

Yea, I've got a Windows issue with it, too. I have four computers connecting to the Internet through my wireless router. On the only one running Windows 10 AU, it keeps dropping the internet access through the router. It still sees the router, OK, but I have to disconnect/reconnect to get through to the Internet again.

I'm about to rollback the AU upgrade, but that is a pain-in-the-butt, too. Plus, one of my son's apps needs AU (but he just may be out of luck on that score).

Credo
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 142

Posted 9/27/2016 9:21 AM (GMT -6)

Yes....it has broken many things here:

1. Lost all my desktop screen settings (color calibration, gamma settings, etc.).
2. Lost more than half of my system drivers (particularly legacy stuff that uses older drivers that were signed for older versions of Windows, or unsigned drivers). The update didn't ask me before deleting them!
3. Broke pretty much everything that uses USB dongles here (Steinberg, iLok, etc.).
4. Reassigned all of my default application settings (to the Edge browser) without asking my permission!
5. Broke the 'permissions' on dozens of programs (Including Finale's registration process).
6. Reactivated dozens of services that I had gone to all sorts of trouble to disable (Such as Drop Box clients) for a long list of reasons.
7. Wiped out much of my custom network/firewall settings without informing me of the changes.

I've been running Microsoft Windows products since Windows 3.1 (as well as MSDOS since the very first version), and this is absolutely the MOST intrusive OS 'update' I've ever endured. In the past something with this many forced changes would have been an optional upgrade (or at least offer a delay flag until we could read and prepare for all the 'changes') so we could clone the system to a new drive first and 'dual boot' until the 'updated installation' is tweaked and tested to comply with the 'new OS rules'. In the past we could browse a list of all the changes...the purpose of each 'patch', and so forth...and make informed decisions on when and how to best implement them.

Welcome to 'progress'. Where a so called 'update' is more like a 'fresh installation'. Heck, in this case I'll be better off to wipe the system drive and start from scratch!

For me this is a lesson....that for anything post Windows 7, it's probably a good idea to avoid the 'Home' Windows version and get the 'Pro' one. Take the time to learn how to make Pro let 'YOU control' the update process. Always clone the whole system drive every week or so...at least that way one can dual boot after botched updates and not miss deadlines thanks to an 'update' that breaks up to 70% of a user's apps to the degree they all must be 'reinstalled'/'reregistered'.

Post Edited (Credo) : 9/27/2016 9:24:12 AM (GMT-5)

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 9/27/2016 1:47 PM (GMT -6)

Microsoft typically rolls out updates on Tuesday, so perhaps they'll fix it today.

The best thing about the last Windows update from my perspective is that it removed "Get Windows 10!" from earlier versions.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 9/27/2016 1:54 PM (GMT -6)

That's because the "upgrade" is no longer free. I'm sticking with Win 7 as long as I can. Hopefully, by the time it becomes a fossil, something better will be available. I skipped from XP to Win 7, avoiding Vista, which I was told was not good. Maybe I'll get lucky again.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 9/27/2016 1:57 PM (GMT -6)

I guess I'll bite the bullet when I get a new computer, although last time I bought one I opted for a special downgrade from Vista to XP. I see absolutely no reason to upgrade to Windows 10 otherwise. (I realize this doesn't help the poor souls struggling with Windows 10.)

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 9/27/2016 2:24 PM (GMT -6)

I would imagine Windows 10 has update options like earlier versions. I always choose to not have automatic updates, so I can see what it wants to do before I give it permission. That way, I can check what the updates are and see if any of them have been causing problems for anyone else.

If what I read here is correct, it seems like Windows 10 allows itself to mess with ones settings and folders (files) without permission. Possibly there are permissions that can be controlled.

Windows 7 updates are so slow. I am willing to put up with this as I would rather stay with Win 7. I've heard that they are purposely making them slow to try to get users to "upgrade" to Windows 10. Who knows.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

gogreen
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 1618

Posted 9/27/2016 3:06 PM (GMT -6)

Zuill said...
I would imagine Windows 10 has update options like earlier versions. I always choose to not have automatic updates, so I can see what it wants to do before I give it permission. That way, I can check what the updates are and see if any of them have been causing problems for anyone else.

I have Windows 10 Home, and that's part of the problem. Windows 10 Home doesn't have the update choices that previous Windows Home versions had. I think you get more update choices now only with the Windows 10 Pro version. Better check before you buy.

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 9/27/2016 3:06 PM (GMT -6)

I start it up right before I go to bed.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

heinzfan
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 1999
Total Posts : 95

Posted 9/27/2016 5:13 PM (GMT -6)

I upgraded my older Windows 7 PC to Windows 10 without any problems. It maintained my desktop layout and all installed software was compatible. Having said that, I don't particularly like the interface. I have the pro version and the only thing you can do as far as Windows updates is to choose when to install them - you can't cherry pick the updates you want to apply. I've read that Microsoft plans to implement that scheme in older versions of the OS, a problem for enterprise systems that test updates before rolling them out - or for an individual who learns an update has broken something. I use the older PC with Win 10 in a limited way, so I can't comment on how Finale works. The few times I opened Finale I had no problem. I did find that the PC booted up super-fast as compared to the superseded Win 7 OS.

My newer PC is Win 8.1 and I'm going to keep that as long as possible.

Windows 7 64 bit; Finale 2014c

Simon Furey
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2001
Total Posts : 202

Posted 9/28/2016 3:37 PM (GMT -6)

I had problems with 14.5 and AU, and that was one of the reasons that persuaded me to try Finale 25 (any port in a storm...) and I have to say that the new Finale does seem a bit more stable and it's definitely faster. However, I haven't seen any significant bug fixes or enhancements that are of any use to me. Native PDF production, for example is still crap (it's still better to use CutePDF or PDF Creator) and MM STILL haven't sorted out the fonts problem that goes back ten years. I'm still hanging on to Finale 2012 as a backstop because of problems producing sound files, though it is much less of a problem than it used to be. And at least Myriad Harmony Assistant/Virtual Singer and Finale can now reside on the same system without screwing each other's file associations up.
As for Windows 10 itself, it should be understood that it was never about solving problems for the user community; it was all about reducing MS development costs. IMHO it offers no advantages whatsoever over Windows 7 on a PC that has the OS on an SSD, and it's considerably less manageable. As a for-instance, when I started using my computer again after leaving it over the summer, Windows 10 insisted on downloading loads of updates taking several hours before throwing them all away again so as to download the even bigger Anniversary Update. Even though I knew AU was pending, there was no way to control or forestall the older updates to the previous Windows 10 version, because there is no update management in Windows 10 Home Edition. What total numpty in Microsoft thought that one through?
If I could wind the clock back, I think I would go back to Windows 7 and Finale 2012 on an all-SSD PC. Sadly, life has moved on, with a concomitant depletion of the contents of my bank account in favour of MS and MM.

Finale 2014.5+2012c/Windows 10 Home/custom built 16Gb Intel I5 4-core CPU 64 bit, SSD+2xHDD
Finale 2014.5+2012c/Windows 10 Home/Dell 8Gb Intel Core 2 Duo CPU 64 bit, SSD+HDD

Zoots
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 385

Posted 9/28/2016 5:54 PM (GMT -6)

Without a doubt Windows 10 Anniversary Update is having its problems on a lot of systems.
My desktop and an old laptop got updated without any problems and my Finale 2012 seems to quite normal.

On the other side of the update coin, the reduction in update control apparently is to ensure the very thing that a lot of people don't want to do - that is install the security updates. A lot of virus issues are much larger than they need be because of unpatched computers.

On Win10 Pro you can defer feature updates but not security updates.

Finale 2012c
JABB3/Aria

Smartscore Pro X2

Windows 10

Intel i7 with more than I need

Credo
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 142

Posted 9/28/2016 6:29 PM (GMT -6)

Zoots said...
Without a doubt Windows 10 Anniversary Update is having its problems on a lot of systems.
My desktop and an old laptop got updated without any problems and my Finale 2012 seems to quite normal.

On the other side of the update coin, the reduction in update control apparently is to ensure the very thing that a lot of people don't want to do - that is install the security updates. A lot of virus issues are much larger than they need be because of unpatched computers.

On Win10 Pro you can defer feature updates but not security updates.

That's the way it usually is.

For years I've accepted security updates on all versions of Windows without a hitch. Up until this particular Anniversary update Windows 10 hasn't been a problem on my systems with AMD or Intel graphics either. For my rig with NVIDIA graphics it's been a major pain though....constantly forcing newer buggy drivers (at least for my particular card and monitors) to install on top of stable ones (and taking out custom settings as well) without any prompts, warnings, or options.

For what ever reasons...this time the update simply 'removed' older system drivers for things like my Fantom X MIDI synth, my M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card (only problem is they are signed for Windows 7, but not for Windows 10....otherwise there is absolutely nothing wrong with the drivers) without asking or warning, forced stable driver versions to update to horrible buggy versions, changed some of the rules for file permissions which broke several apps out there, and the list goes on.

Another new first...was an update that forces everything to Default to the Edge Browser without asking. I'm pretty sure Microsoft lost some Anti-Trust law suits over this practice in the past! It's intrusive to say the least. I personally like and use Edge quite often, but I have zero desire for it to take over things like PDF and XML files by default. I assigned default apps to a zillion different editors and viewers (many pointing to things on my LAN via symbolic links) for a reason! I'm a producer with my own network on 'Workstations', not a consumer with a 'Smartphone'! I need editors and managers bound to my personal local jiras and wikis...not web-stores, bitcoin wallets, and drop boxes scattered all over the cloud, and this particular update wiped out a year of such links and settings without warning or asking me :( It should be obvious to the installers that these are 'Workstations' set up for 'Production'....but it decided 'for me' that I'm a kid with a tablet and an Xbox who might want to buy this month's Marvel Universe Movie Stream :( Of course I have backups and the ability to fix all this....I don't mind even....but it should be at 'my discretion' when I'm ready and able to tackle an update this involved.

Personally, I'd have accepted the patches at some point to get up to date/code....the thing is, when an update is going to change this much all at one time....we should be get advance warning, and an option to delay the update until we're 'prepared' to fix all the damage such an update will do!

Just as an example...
I've a number of custom drivers in the Windows driverstore. This last update just REMOVED THEM without out warning, or explanation of if and where it's backing things up. Maybe it backed them up for me somewhere for possible restoration, but I have NO CLUE where, or how to restore them if it did. I had to go digging about in months worth of system backups and jump through all the manual security hoops to reinstall these drivers from scratch!

Even aggressive virus protection quarantines things, and tells you what it has done and why...thus offering an easy way to restore/undo things when it makes a misdiagnosis. In the past...so did Windows Updates! This one was very different for me :(

Post Edited (Credo) : 9/28/2016 6:46:45 PM (GMT-5)

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 9/29/2016 6:20 PM (GMT -6)

Does Windows 10 offer an upgrade from Home to Pro? If Pro is better, then that might be a good thing to do.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

gogreen
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 1618

Posted 9/29/2016 7:38 PM (GMT -6)

/support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12384/windows-10-upgrading-home-to-pro

weeksc
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 349

Posted 10/1/2016 12:44 PM (GMT -6)

Windows 10 Pro Anniversary Update and FinWin 2014.5 here with no troubles at all so far, and I always have updates set to automatic. Fact is, other than the resetting tool pallets problem, I've never had issues between Finale and any version of Windows.

Now, video drivers and Finale.... that could take a while to outline.

In fact, if you are using an NVidia card, that is always my first suggestion... go back to the last driver where you didn't have issues with Finale and Windows. If that doesn't work, go to the manufacturer's website and download the latest and greatest.

--Clancy

Finale 2014.5
Microsoft Surface Pro 3, i5 256
Windows 10 Pro Anniversary Edition
___________________________

I never claimed to know everything... I'm just right about the things I know!

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