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Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 9/18/2003 2:59 PM (GMT -6)

Can anyone out there help?
I need to enter figured bass lines in scores for a counterpoint course. I'm using Finale 2004. I have read and re-read everything in the manual on figured bass and libraries, but I am missing something. I've loaded the "Figured Bass" library. Then what? It doesn't do anything. I've been through every drop-down and menu item in Finale and can't find any way to access this library or put a figured bass into a score.
I feel really stupid--and I hate it when I feel like that.
Ron

Jim Coull
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 2723

Posted 9/18/2003 6:19 PM (GMT -6)

Ron,

I assume that you want to enter both the analysis symbols (upper and lower case Roman numerals) and the figured bass symbols for inversions and alterations.

Entering the Roman numerals seems to be fairly easy in Finale using the chord tool. From the Chord Menu > Chord Style, select "Roman" then type in the root of the chord using upper case letters for major and augmented chords and lower case letters for minor and diminished chords. To get the diminished symbol, type in a lower case o and type the + symbol for the augmented chords. For example, to get the i chord in the key of A minor type a lower case a, to get the III chord, type an upper case C, to get the III+ chord, type an upper case C followed by the + symbol (shift = on the Mac). Finale will translate all of these to the appropriate analysis symbols.

The inversion (figured bass) symbols are a bit tricker. Without using any third party fonts (see below), I have had the best luck creating a set of inversion numbers as expressions and entering them after I have typed in all of the chords. The problem I have with the Finale figured bass chord suffix library is remembering the keystrokes for all of the inversion symbols, but the library is fairly complete and set up pretty well. You just have to load it into any document (or template) that you want to use it in. You could then take several screen shots of the symbols, print them out and keep around for reference or just jot down the numbers of the ones that you use the most.

I have had the best luck entering figured bass symbols as lyrics using a figured bass font that I made for myself with Fontographer that includes both the upper and lower case Roman numerals as well as all of the inversion symbols, slashes, etc. (If I ever get it completely finished, I would be happy to share it with you, but don't hold your breath for it. ;-) ) There are also several commercial and shareware figured bass fonts available. You might want to start with Ansgar Krause's fonts ( http://www.ansgarkrause.de/finalfonts.htm ).

Good luck

Jim Coull

Peter Thomsen
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331

Posted 9/18/2003 8:32 PM (GMT -6)

Ron,

The library "Figured Bass" is a chord suffix library. When you have loaded it, you will see the chord suffixes in dialog box Chord Selection.

See the attached example where I have loaded the "Figured Bass" library into an empty document.

In case you want only the figured bass symbols (and not the Roman numerals), just hide the root of the chord.

Peter

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 9/19/2003 3:58 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks to Peter and Jim for their detailed and helpful replies. These forums and the response from users is a great feature of Makemusic products.

I kept going back to Chord menu and trying things out, but never stumbled on Jim's suggestion of using "Roman" style.

I can't try their suggestions out at the moment, as I'm at a work, but I certainly will give them a try when I get home--seeing as I have a homework assignment in counterpoint due Monday.

Ron

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 9/19/2003 3:57 PM (GMT -6)

I am about ready to admit that I am a hopeless idiot who has no business trying to use a sophisticated program like Finale. I've loaded the "Figured Bass" library over and over again. I've searched through every font I have on my machine looking for something that might be a "Figured Bass" font, but can't find anything. So, I load the library--then what? Where does it go? Please explain.
Do I go to "Text" or to "Lyrics" or to "Chords"? And, once there, where do I find the figured bass symbols? And, even if I do manage to find them, how do I get them into the score? Oh, I can probably figure that out once they are found. Yes, I can type "Alt+xxx" if I have to and if I know what font to have selected and what numbers to type--and in what utility to be when I type them.
Ron

Slandrom Musik
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2000
Total Posts : 380

Posted 9/19/2003 9:08 PM (GMT -6)

Ron,

You find them in Chord Tool as Suffixes. If you
use Type Into Score you can type them directly
with no root. Using MetaTools can aso be a good
way to speed it up.

Björn

Jim Coull
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 2723

Posted 9/20/2003 11:31 AM (GMT -6)

I am about ready to admit that I am a hopeless idiot who has no business trying to use a sophisticated program like Finale.

I don't know you so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and confirm that you are not an idiot. ;-) However, based on your post, you appear to be a rookie with Finale so you may want to take some time to go through the tutorials and check out some of the sections in the online documentation about chords and chord symbols. Be aware that in "FinaleSpeak," chords and chord symbols are not necessarily the same.

I've loaded the "Figured Bass" library over and over again.

No need to load the libraries more than once per document. The chord libraries are not actually seen until you call on them. To view the contents of any loaded chord libraries, click on the Chord Tool, go to the Chord Menu and select Manual Input from the pop up menu. Then click on any note or rest in the score and you should get the Chord Definition dialog box. Click on the Show Advanced button at the top of the dialog (this step is not necessary if the words Hide Advanced are showing) and then click on the Select button towards the bottom of the dialog box. You should now see the Chord Suffix Selection dialog that has a scrolling list of all the chord suffices loaded into your document. The little numbers in in the upper left hand corner of each suffix are the numbers you should make note of so that you can type the suffix faster. For example, if "maj7" is suffix number 9, you can enter a Cmaj7 chord symbol directly into the score by typing "C:9"

I've searched through every font I have on my machine looking for something that might be a "Figured Bass" font, but can't find anything.

There will be nothing by that name on your machine unless you have specifically put it there. There is no "Figured Bass" font that comes with Finale. The chord fonts are are determined by the settings in the Options > Document Options > Fonts dialog box. The root font (that would be the "I, vi, V, etc. when using the Roman style of chord entry) and the suffix font (that would be the 7, 6, 6/4, etc. when using the Figured bass library) can be set in the previously mentioned dialog, but changes made in it will not affect any chord symbols already entered in the score, as I recall.

So, I load the library--then what? Where does it go? Please explain. Do I go to "Text" or to "Lyrics" or to "Chords"? And, once there, where do I find the figured bass symbols? And, even if I do manage to find them, how do I get them into the score? Oh, I can probably figure that out once they are found. Yes, I can type "Alt xxx" if I have to and if I know what font to have selected and what numbers to type--and in what utility to be when I type them.

When entering chords in Finale, using Finale's defaults and libraries, use the Chord Tool. The Lyrics Tool will only work if you have one of the figured bass fonts (which you probably don't have unless you downloaded or purchased it). The same is true with the Text Tool.

If you have read this post carefully and looked over the online docs, your questions should all be answered. Again, I would strongly recommend that you spend sometime with the tutorials and the online docs to get used to the various tools and jargon.

Good luck.

Jim Coull

guser
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2001
Total Posts : 661

Posted 9/20/2003 2:35 PM (GMT -6)

Since students are supposedly one of the prime target audiences for Finale, and since every music major has to do figured bass exercises at some point, you'd think Coda would see the value in making this easy to do.

Oh, well, not the first time something about Finale doesn't make sense to me 8-P

Jim Coull
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 2723

Posted 9/21/2003 1:56 AM (GMT -6)

,,,you'd think Coda would see the value in making this easy to do.

Quite frankly, I don't see how figured bass is technically any harder to enter into Finale than standard jazz/pop chord symbols. However, I think the online doc section that deals with figured bass could provide a little more detailed information and perhaps a figured bass template could be added to the education templates.

Jim Coull

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 9/21/2003 4:04 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks for all the responses. Using all the comments here I was able to stumble through and discover how to do these things. In response to Jim, I have been using Finale for about a year and have gone through the tutorials, but there are aspects and features of Finale that remain mysterious and inaccessible. There are 10 people in my composition class all using Finale and sometimes all ten of us cannot figure out how to do something that should be straight forward. The documentation generally very good and thorough, but there are glaring omissions. The doc writers seem to assume that anyone reading it is familiar with the jargon and tech speak and sometimes neglect to put themselves in the place of someone who has never used a feature before sitting at their keyboard at 3:00 am.
Ron

mikepilkington
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 165

Posted 10/17/2003 8:23 AM (GMT -6)

I can find the figured bass library, and have now removed all the chord symbols, which merely get in the way. However, it seems that when I pick a symbol I have to uncheck boxes to stop roots and things being added, and have to do this every time! Also, is there any reason there are about five sharps and five flats in the selection boxes?

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