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Bill Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 10

Posted 11/18/2010 11:34 AM (GMT -6)

Post Edited (Bill Johnson) : 11/30/2010 11:15:01 AM (GMT-6)

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/18/2010 12:31 PM (GMT -6)

Bill,
There are any number of ways to do what you want. It depends on the computer fluency of yourself, and the choristers, what will work best for you.

For my singers, I put each line on a separate channel. Then, I save the piece as a MIDI file. That give me a file with each track on its own channel. If your choristers can handle it, a program like SweetMIDIPlayer (Windows) or GarageBand (Mac) will let them listen to the piece and manipulate the parts: they can bring the volume of their own part up, and the others down, to learn the line. They can bring the other up, and take their own out, to practice with the other parts. Or anything in-between.

You can also extract the parts, and save them individually as MIDI tracks. (Extract, not Generate Parts. I'm not sure of the difference. But I started with PrintMusic, when Extract was the only choice.)

You can manipulate the panning of the file, to put 3 voices in one speaker, and 1 in the other. Make a file for each part.

You can even combine the MIDI with the lyrics, as a karaoke file.

If you want to give them a .mus file, they will need (at least) Finale Reader to use that. You would have to copy the lyric to each line before extracting, if you want to give them just their line.

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

WebMaster and bass for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
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Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010; Finale 2010b, 2011b
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996

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Bill Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 10

Posted 11/18/2010 6:08 PM (GMT -6)

Mike;

Thanks for your input. I may now ask to "drill down" just a bit into one of your suggestions if you don't mind.

I'd like to keep with the .mus if I can and Finale Reader for the users.

If I could now ask you to elaborate slightly on your concept of "give them each a .mus file and each of them will have Finale Reader;

You suggest that I will need to "copy the lyrics to each line" Let me say that the example I linked to has three staffs. Staff 1 had upper and lower notes for Soprano and Alto, Staff 2 has notes for Tenor and Bass. The lyrics for the song appear "between" these two staffs, but when I "extract parts" from the "File" menu which creates four .MUS files, one with the word Saprano, Alto, Tenor, Bass in the file names, only the Soprano and Alto parts have lyrics. It would seem the lyrics are attached to or part of Staff 1. So, my first "step" will be to;

"Copy" the lyrics which seem to be part of Staff #1 to Staff #2 as well.

Can you tell me the step to "select the text in all three verses, copy and past them to the other staff?

Thanks

Bill

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/18/2010 8:05 PM (GMT -6)

Bill,
I've sent you a Private Message.

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 11/19/2010 4:50 AM (GMT -6)

Is there any reason why you don't just give each singer the score? Singers are used to singing from scores, rather than parts. I would suggest that singing from parts is more difficult.

For instance, the Sopranos may need to pitch their note for the next entry by listening to what the Altos have just sung. If they only have parts, they won't know what notes the Altos have sung.

Even for playback, having the other parts playing is of more use, as they may provide either a harmonic framework which makes it easier; or alternatively, the singer will need to know if there is anything in the other parts that might put them off!

Finale 2011b, 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.5
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Bill Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 10

Posted 11/19/2010 10:59 AM (GMT -6)

Wiggy; I agree that having the other parts playing is useful, but some singers need their part turned up louder than the others, like one singer who needs to stand close to another more experienced singer singing his same part.

Perhaps I should be pusuing a way to "Play all parts" but turn down the volume on certain parts before we send to parts to be played with "Free Finale Reader". Might this be easy to do?

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/19/2010 11:09 AM (GMT -6)

Bill,
You can do that. What program do you have?

Bill Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 10

Posted 11/19/2010 11:30 AM (GMT -6)

Since I am serving as technical assistant, and my Choir Director will continue what ever process and proceedure I outline, and since she is a veteran of Finale and Finale Reader, I'd like to stay with those two.

So, how do I turn "down" certain parts and leave "up" one part (like Bass voice) before I save the .mus as "practice for bass singer.mus"

I feel very good about where this discussion is going and my church choir will soon benifit from precise "practice" music!

God Bless

michelp
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 2232

Posted 11/19/2010 1:03 PM (GMT -6)

Like Mike Rosen explained a few posts ago, you can easily pan 3 voices on one side, and the other one (bass) on the other side. This gives the possibility to listen to the bass part only or a mix of the whole choir.
The possiblities of the mixer window are many.

Michel
Finale 2011b, 2010b, 2009b, 2008b on a MacG5 2x2,5 Gh (4,5 Go RAM) and MacOsX 10.5.8, French azerty kb, Dolet 5.5. Full TGTools. Midi interface : MOTU Midi Express XT. Roland Sound Canvas SC88-vl.

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/19/2010 1:06 PM (GMT -6)

Bill,
I can't get through to the link. There's a lot of formatting in it. Rename your file something like Sovereign.mus, and repost the link.

Go into the instrument list (in Finale, not in Reader) and you will see the volume column. You can play with the numbers there, until you get the balance you want. 0 is minimum, 127 is maximum. You can also play with the pan settings. 1 is full left, 127 is full right.

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/19/2010 6:48 PM (GMT -6)

Bill,
As I said, go into the Instrument List window. There is a column labeled PAN. Set 3 of them at 1, and one at 127. That will put three voices in one speaker, and one voice in the other. I have attached a file that I have done that with. The bass is on the right, SAT on the left. You can use your volume sliders to hear it clearly.

File Attachment :
unbalanced.mus 37KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 326 time(s).

warrenbarnett
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 1441

Posted 11/19/2010 6:52 PM (GMT -6)

But you must click on "Window" to get to the instrument list.

Warren Barnett

Finale 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

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Bill Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 10

Posted 11/19/2010 7:25 PM (GMT -6)

Excellent information! Currently, the three choices I have are called Staff 1 Staff 2 and Staff 3.

How do I create separate instruments for Midi from Bass and Tenor notes which are both on Staff2?

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/20/2010 12:40 AM (GMT -6)

Again in the instrument list, click the down arrow to the left of where it says Staff 2. You will then see the different layers, and you can adjust them. (I assume that T and B are on different layers. If they aren't, your director will have to do that.)

Bill Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 10

Posted 11/20/2010 1:24 AM (GMT -6)

Please recall that prior, my music director has used Finale to print music sheets only.

michelp
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 2232

Posted 11/20/2010 7:15 AM (GMT -6)

Bill Johnson said...
The T and B are Not on different layers. Please help me understand HOW I may make them so.

Use the explode function to place them on 2 staves.
Then if you want, you can move one of them (B) to another layer (2). Show active layer only (2) and copy/paste back in another layer (2) of the original staff.

Fritz Meissner
Choir Addict

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 3238

Posted 11/20/2010 8:44 AM (GMT -6)

BTW, your music director will probably love the Finale repitch tool if she doesn't already know about it - tell her to have a look at it. It's ideal for music that has the parts mostly singing the same time - just enter one part, copy it to the other parts and use the repitch tool to adjust the notes to the correct pitches. It's really quick.

Fritz

PrintMusic 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2010 Windows 7 Home Premium, Pentium i7 750 quad core + 4 GB; Cakewalk UA-101
2nd Tenor Cape Town Male Voice Choir
Use the Finale Knowledgebase first !

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/20/2010 10:13 AM (GMT -6)

That's how I do it, Fritz. I start out with a four staff template, enter the first line, copy and repitch for the others. Then, move staves 2 and 4 to layer 2, implode and move to a two-staff template, add the lyric line, and clean it up. But I save the original 4 line setup, and generate my MIDIs from there.

Post Edited (Mike Rosen) : 11/20/2010 9:21:54 AM (GMT-6)

Stu Estes
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 12

Posted 11/20/2010 11:23 AM (GMT -6)

Bill, I do rehearsal disks for my Community Choir this way. I have each voice part and the accompaniment on separate channels. On the file menu I use "Export to Audio File..." to create an MP3 file of the whole thing. Then I go into the Instrument List in the Window menu. I select Solo (S) for one voice part and the accompaniment and then export that to MP3, continuing to make separate MP3 files for each voice part. Then I use Real Player (or your choice of burner software) to burn CDs for each singer who wants one. They get to hear each piece two ways: the full score, and their own part alone with accompaniment.

Post Edited (Stu Estes) : 11/20/2010 10:34:33 AM (GMT-6)

Bill Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 10

Posted 11/21/2010 9:22 PM (GMT -6)

You've all been very helpful to me and I now understand my process;

My director is quite proficient at what she does; develop sheet music in support of our choir. I hope to expand her capabilities to include producing audio files for part singers, without changing what she is used to doing. Ultimately, from one season to the next, I hope she will save "ONE .MUS" file for each song as she is accustomed to doing.

I hope to develop as simple as possible process which I can implement and hopefully, if she sees the value, she can sustain. Here is the "process" I see given what I've learned from you guys;

> To create separate "MIDI" instruments, I must isolate the notes for each instrument (voice part) first. Either to separate Staffs or layers. Since my Director typically creates sheet music with SA on one Staff and TB on another Staff therefore I must;

> I must explode each compound Staff into separate staffs, THEN "Move" all the notes on one staff to a unique layer, then "implode" the staffs back together. One Staff can contain Soprano and Alto notes as long as they are on different layers.

> Once I've completed this for the SA compound line and the TB compound line, the Sheet Music should "Look" the same as before I made the modification. Clearly, I need to advise the Director that if she is to "Edit" the music in the future, she needs to be mindful that Tenor is on layer 1 and Bass on layer 2, etc.

At this point, I'd like to ask those of you on this forum if "standard" or "common conventions" exist for compound voice staffs? Is it common for instance to have the higher note on layer 2 and lower ones on layer 3?

Also, are there common conventions for "Midi Channel" assignments and instrument selections for this purpose? In Church, we sing along with an electronic organ, but I've done fine with practice music set to "piano". Also, in the "instrument setup" there seem to be a mind numbing number of offerings.

Again, thanks to all who have offered guidance so far.

Bill

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/22/2010 12:50 AM (GMT -6)

You seem to understand it just fine! I put:

Soprano in layer 1, MIDI channel 1
Alto layer 2, channel 2

Tenor, layer 1, channel 3
Bass layer 2, channel 4

Piano, organ, etc. channel 5

I find that using saxophone - soprano, alto, tenor, and baritone - is better than the choir ooh and ahs. You would set that up in your template.

cmbos
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 70

Posted 11/22/2010 2:43 AM (GMT -6)

I use the sound of the oboe for the part you want to hear very clearly, for the other choral parts I use "String ensemble 1".

Win XP PRO - Finale 2008

Yamaha S90 ES

Bill Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 10

Posted 11/22/2010 10:41 AM (GMT -6)

Thank you Mike and CMBOS. Next question;

Is there a way to move a single note from Layer 1 to Layer 2?

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 11/22/2010 1:03 PM (GMT -6)

Not really. Sometimes it's easier to just delete the note in one layer, and re-enter it in the other.

cmbos
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 70

Posted 11/30/2010 4:58 AM (GMT -6)

To move an note from layer 2 to 1 simply click it and select in the right-click menu "move to layer..."

Win XP PRO - Finale 2008

Yamaha S90 ES

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