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kevpace
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 26

Posted 4/30/2016 4:27 PM (GMT -6)

I have unwanted rests appearing underneath my notes in Finale 2014. I can't seem to edit the notes or the rest. Any ideas how to fix this? Sample is attached.

File Attachment :
Elect - weird rests.musx 101KB (application/octet-stream)

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Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 4/30/2016 4:33 PM (GMT -6)

I can't find the rests you are talking about. The first 13 measures are blank; the rest have some music in the piano staff and nothing in the other staffs. (Though for some reason I don't understand, in the left hand piano final measure you have one note in layer 1 and the other in layer 2.)

Finale 2014.5

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

kevpace
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 26

Posted 4/30/2016 5:01 PM (GMT -6)

In measures 14-19, there is a whole rest in each measure behind the notes of the piano part (treble clef). I cannot edit the notes, or delete the rests. I deleted the other stuff from measure 1 to 13 so as not to distract from the area of trouble. The 2 voices in measure 19 is unimportant to the issue at hand.

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 4/30/2016 5:19 PM (GMT -6)

Sorry, but attached is a screen shot of what I see in those measures. Maybe someone with better eyesight than me could check it out?

Finale 2014.5

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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rests.png 224KB (image/png)

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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 4/30/2016 5:23 PM (GMT -6)

I too see the whole rests in measures 14-19 in the piano part RH. This has me buffaloed. They are not there if you go to Scroll View. If you try to select any of the notes/rests in those measures with either Simple or Speedy, they are not there. Control click will not select any note but just positions the caret at the beginning of the measure. Additional notes can be entered with Simple. The Speedy edit frame is blank as if no notes are there. Additional notes can be entered in Speedy. It is as if they are ghost notes of some kind, except when you go to Scroll View.

Somebody better than me, like Zuill or Peter Thomsen, needs to explain this one!

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)

3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)

32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]

ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 4/30/2016 5:24 PM (GMT -6)

Ron,

It looks like you are in Scroll View. Try Page View.

This is really weird! What's going on here gurus.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)

3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)

32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]

ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 4/30/2016 5:34:40 PM (GMT-5)

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GhostNotes.png 133KB (image/x-png)

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Image Attachment :
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ScrollView.png 162KB (image/x-png)

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Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 4/30/2016 5:38 PM (GMT -6)

Sorry, I never look at a score in page view until ready for the final format. In any case, this is truly bizarre. As Charles points out, the existing notes are not really there. I tried editing in each of the 4 layers and they were unaffected. However, you can edit them (they are in layer 1) in scroll view.

Even odder, if you copy those notes to the top two staffs, they appear normally and the rests are not there. If you turn off "Display rests in empty measures" they disappear everywhere except in the troublesome measures.

Finale 2014.5

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

Post Edited (Ron.) : 4/30/2016 6:24:19 PM (GMT-5)

Wlgold
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 1733

Posted 4/30/2016 5:38 PM (GMT -6)

If you copy and paste the piano part to another area, all of the notes show up in the bass clef. It's almost as if something was done with the note mover.

Finale 2014-5, GPO 5, JABB 3, Garritan Steinway Basic, Garritan World Instruments
Windows 10, 64 bit
Intel Core 2 Quad, 8GB RAM

Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist

Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883

Posted 4/30/2016 6:14 PM (GMT -6)

Weird! Copy and Paste to a new document clears this behavior up.

Maybe Zuill can divine the issue or as simple as just a corrupt original template?

Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.2.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

Post Edited (Ralph L. Bowers Jr.) : 4/30/2016 6:17:48 PM (GMT-5)

File Attachment :
corruption.musx 87KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 237 time(s).

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 4/30/2016 6:27 PM (GMT -6)

When creating the third system (the one on the second page), Finale somehow duplicated the S/A, called it [Staff 1] and superimposed it onto the RH piano staff. If you select a measure in the 3rd system and then select Staff/Staff Usage..., you'll see that for only this one system, there are actually five staves. This [Staff 1] has 0 distance between it and Staff 2, the latter of which is the RH piano staff. Set this to a positive value and the rogue staff will appear. Interestingly, it has taken over some of the parameters of the S/A staff: if you set [Staff 1] not to show rests in empty measures, these default rests in the S/A staff will disappear. On the other hand, you can copy to [Staff 1] freely, as well as enter notes into it. If you move the measures of system 3 into system 2 and then back again, this whole anomaly will disappear. I've no idea how it happened in the first place, though.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014.5, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.11.1
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB

Amsterdam

Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist

Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883

Posted 4/30/2016 6:38 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks Vaughan for the instruction into another evaluation tool.

I appreciate it.

The OP could still have a bad Template and this is going to (will) replicate (manifest) itself in the future unless he cleans it up and re saves.

Post Edited (Ralph L. Bowers Jr.) : 4/30/2016 7:01:26 PM (GMT-5)

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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 4/30/2016 8:20 PM (GMT -6)

Yes Vaughan, thanks for the explanation. It is so simple now to see what is going on, but how it got that way, who knows. I had actually thought that it might be superimposed staves, but did not try to separate them. It is easy. Just select the Staff Tool and click/hold/drag down the handle on measure 14 to reveal the empty "hidden" [Staff 2]. BTW, Ralph, another visual indicator is to turn on the display of default staff names. It is easy to see [Staff 1] superimposed on top of [Staff 2].

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)

3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)

32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]

ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 4/30/2016 8:25:28 PM (GMT-5)

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Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 4/30/2016 10:55 PM (GMT -6)

I've had it happen where I clicked, or perhaps double-clicked on a staff and it made a duplicate right on top of it. I can't get it to happen now, but I'm sure of it.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 5/1/2016 1:16 AM (GMT -6)

My guess is that this file had Special Part Extraction applied at some point and this has messed things up. I went into scroll view, selected all the staves, selected Special Part Extraction, then de-selected it. It seems to have fixed the file. I may be wrong, however, but I recall having seen this before, so thought that might have been the cause. Who knows. Since this file came originally from Finale 2005, much may have happened to it over the years. I guess files age like all of us.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

File Attachment :
Elect - weird rests Revised.musx 84KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 230 time(s).

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 5/1/2016 6:53 AM (GMT -6)

Zuill,

Where is this Special Part Extraction you speak of? I cannot seem to find it

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)

3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)

32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]

ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Peter Thomsen
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331

Posted 5/1/2016 7:15 AM (GMT -6)

Charles Lawrence said...
…Where is this Special Part Extraction you speak of? I cannot seem to find it

It is in the Document menu.

To use Special Part Extraction you must view the score in Scroll View.
And you must be in the Staff Tool, with at least one staff selected.

It is described in the manual, in the section about the Document menu.

Finale has had linked parts since Finale 2007, thus making Special Part Extraction obsolete.

Peter

Mac Finale, 2012c, 2014d & 2014.5, Dolet 6.6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 5/1/2016 7:43 AM (GMT -6)

It should probably be removed but MM probably needs to keep this dinosaur around for cases like these with old files.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014.5, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.11.1
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB

Amsterdam

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 5/1/2016 11:00 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks,

I guess I didn't see the forest for the trees. I know I looked in the Document menu, blush , and I was in Scroll View with all the staves selected, as Zuill said.

BTW, Zuill says to select it and then deselect it. I don't understand that instruction. There is no way to select/deselect it that I see in F2014.5. Choosing it from the menu just pops open the "Multimeasure Rest" dialog box.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)

3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)

32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]

ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist

Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883

Posted 5/1/2016 12:01 PM (GMT -6)

"BTW, Zuill says to select it and then deselect it. I don't understand that instruction. There is no way to select/deselect it that I see in F2014.5. Choosing it from the menu just pops open the "Multimeasure Rest" dialog box."

It worked as Zuill stated.
Just select the staff, select "Special Parts Extraction, closeout the dialog box that opens by just clicking okay and than uncheck Special Parts Extraction.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 5/1/2016 1:48 PM (GMT -6)

Right. There is the MM rest setup box. After that I deselected.

I'm really not sure how I remembered something similar in the past. I also am not sure whether this problem had to do with Special Part Extraction. I merely tried it out to see if it would do anything.

What I'm guessing is that at some point Special Part Extraction may have been used, and then, possible, staves were optimized maybe, or hidden, or both. I'm just shooting in the dark, and don't know about the history of the file.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 5/1/2016 4:09 PM (GMT -6)

Ralph L. Bowers Jr. said...
than uncheck Special Parts Extraction.

That's just it. There is no "check" or "uncheck" Special Parts Extraction in F2014.5. Show me an image with a check next to it. Am I misunderstanding?

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)

3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)

32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]

ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 5/1/2016 4:20 PM (GMT -6)

In the Document menu.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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kevpace
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 26

Posted 5/1/2016 4:35 PM (GMT -6)

To the best of my remembering, this is how the situation arose. I had set up a score with 4 staves. I hid some unused staves. Then I changed the amount of measures per system. That is where the problem started.

Many thanks to all those who solved this issue.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 5/1/2016 4:52 PM (GMT -6)

Since this file started with Finale 2005, did you hide the staves the old fashioned way with optimization?

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

kevpace
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 26

Posted 5/1/2016 5:01 PM (GMT -6)

No, I used the staff menu, hide empty staves feature. And why are people saying this started with 2005? This is a new file. Although I often copy and paste a past piece to use for a new piece's formatting. Could it be that I am copying and pasting some old stuff into new files?

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