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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Automatic Music Spacing | Forum Quick Jump
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Anders Hedelin
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 7
| Posted Yesterday 10:50 AM (GMT -6) |   | This is a comment that I posted on the other forum, the Zendesk one, without much response, so I'll try it here on the 'real' forum before it's too late.
I recently had a rather disheartenuing experience with one of my customers, actually an established music publisher. What happened was that he opened and made some proof-reading changes in carefully layouted musx. files I'd sent him, obviously without turning off Automatic Music Spacing. The result was that the printed and published (!) score looked simply amateurish with a lot of collisions and displacements that certainly weren't there in the files that I delivered.
My suggestion is that the option to turn on and off Automatic Music Spacing be moved from program-based Preferences to document-based Document Options - to avoid sorrows like this. (I also had mishaps myself when moving from one project to another, forgetting to turn off the function - and loosing hours of work.)
Possibly this issue has been discussed here before, but, as someone pointed out not long ago, there might be somerthing amiss with the search function, so it's difficult to know. I can just chime in with those of you who have expressed worries about the future of this truly invaluable forum!
Finale (2.0, 97, 2003, 2005) 2007, -08, -09, -11, -12, -14, 25.2
PC (2015) Windows 7, MacBook Pro (2010) OS 10.8Post Edited (Anders Hedelin) : 12/17/2016 9:56:08 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted Yesterday 12:09 PM (GMT -6) | | Until that happens (the option is given), make sure the Document options to Incorporate manual Spacing is selected, that systems are locked (in score and parts) and that you send a pdf for comparison in case this happens again.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Anders Hedelin
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 7
| Posted Yesterday 12:41 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for your replies!
I checked the document in question, and in the Doc Opt the music-spacing 'incorporate' option was chosen all right. But what then could have happened to the files? The printed score spoke it's sorry story for itself!
I'm not quite sure about this, but occasionally it seems that the 'incorporate' option is not 100% obliging. Anyone else had this experience?
Finale (2.0, 97, 2003, 2005) 2007, -08, -09, -11, -12, -14, 25.2
PC (2015) Windows 7, MacBook Pro (2010) OS 10.8 | | Back to Top | |
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N. Grossingink
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991
| Posted Yesterday 12:58 PM (GMT -6) | | Anders Hedelin said...
I'm not quite sure about this, but occasionally it seems that the 'incorporate' option is not 100% obliging. Anyone else had this experience?
I agree! Incorporate seems sometimes to act like "Clear", clearing manual positioning rather than "Incorporating". Maybe I just don't understand the full impact of this option, but I avoid it like the plague.
N.
OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5, not used by my clients
(Finale v25 - not interested yet)
TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale
"At last, fortissimo!"
–Gustav Mahler, on visiting Niagara Falls | | Back to Top | |
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Anders Hedelin
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 7
| Posted Yesterday 1:13 PM (GMT -6) | | And to Zuill, thanks again for you reply! I did lock systems and I did send pdf's but in this case it obviously didn't help. None of us are infallible it seems, neither me, music publishers nor Finale developers. We'll just have to wait to see it happen, one day.
Finale (2.0, 97, 2003, 2005) 2007, -08, -09, -11, -12, -14, 25.2
PC (2015) Windows 7, MacBook Pro (2010) OS 10.8 | | Back to Top | |
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Anders Hedelin
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 7
| Posted Yesterday 2:24 PM (GMT -6) | | I think that the replies to this small comment of mine have shown that there really is a definite use, not to say an urgent need, for a change in the program. I only hope that Finale developers will notice this.
Something different, but not completely different, though: When I read about this change to a 'new brave' forum, one of the reasons for having the facility to vote allegedly was that Finale responsibles should have a grip on what was important. That frightens me. Instead of carefully reading, and considering posts like the ones on this forum, Finale developers would content themselves with counting the votes, and 'act accordingly'? God help us, if that's true.
Finale (2.0, 97, 2003, 2005) 2007, -08, -09, -11, -12, -14, 25.2
PC (2015) Windows 7, MacBook Pro (2010) OS 10.8 | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted Yesterday 2:45 PM (GMT -6) | | Incorporate works for most things. However, manual adjustment of seconds, for example, gets cleared, despite using Incorporate. So, after all the note entry, uncheck seconds in the spacing options, and then manual spacing is honored.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Vaughan
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
| Posted Yesterday 2:52 PM (GMT -6) | | I agree with all these comments. Automatic Music Spacing should definitely be a document setting and not a program setting. This has caused me grief a number of times, and it's also one of the many reasons I'd never give out my Finale files (except under extreme circumstances), as it's so easy for someone else to mess up one's work. Now I only turn it on when entering notes.
I would also petition to have the possibility to deactivate Automatic Update Layout removed permanently. This causes Finale to behave in a completely idiosyncratic way to [especially new] users who unwittingly turn this off, make edits, don't update the layout manually, and then can't understand why their document changes completely when saving or printing (two moments at which Finale always updates layout, regardless of the program setting). Today's computers are fast enough to make this unnecessary.
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 25.1, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB
Amsterdam | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted Yesterday 7:28 PM (GMT -6) | | OK. I may be wrong, in this case. In my situation, it appears that Music Spacing is the culprit, not Update Layout. I will try turning that one only, off, and see what happens.
I've always treated them as a pair, not individually. But I'm willing to learn!
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html
Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker." | | Back to Top | |
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Vaughan
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
| Posted Yesterday 7:51 PM (GMT -6) | | Other than its possibly slowing down work in larger scores, Automatic Update Layout can't possibly have an unwanted effect. Turning it off simply postpones the inevitable: Finale will still update the layout upon performing certain operations and if you haven't thought to do it manually on a very frequent basis, your score layout will change at those moments. In addition, manually updating the layout works from that point to the end of the score and not from the beginning. When Finale updates the layout itself (without your asking it to), it will do so to the entire document, with unexpected results. This has been the cause of a lot of consternation on the part of unaware users.
The independent time signature problem is, well, independent of this, as it's buggy and needs to be used with caution. Applying smart shapes, for example, can lead to unpredictable results. Sometimes working in Scroll View helps a little and I seem to remember something about its being wise to avoid having the top staff use an independent time signature, but I could be mistaken.
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 25.1, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB
Amsterdam | | Back to Top | |
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Anders Hedelin
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 7
| Posted Today 9:11 AM (GMT -6) | | That's how I originally wanted it too, but the publisher insisted on his convenience. I think we will have to have another discussion, this time about convenience vs. quality. Old topic...
Finale (2.0, 97, 2003, 2005) 2007, -08, -09, -11, -12, -14, 25.2
PC (2015) Windows 7, MacBook Pro (2010) OS 10.8 | | Back to Top | |
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Anders Hedelin
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 7
| Posted Today 9:42 AM (GMT -6) | | I really liked Vaughan's comparison with photographers. What I would like to ask you, Vaughan and Harpsi, is what your customers say to that (not getting hold of the Finale files)? Do they mutter much?
Finale (2.0, 97, 2003, 2005) 2007, -08, -09, -11, -12, -14, 25.2
PC (2015) Windows 7, MacBook Pro (2010) OS 10.8Post Edited (Anders Hedelin) : 12/18/2016 8:46:22 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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