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ainmpiano
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 206

Posted 9/12/2014 9:15 AM (GMT -6)

I have SW 2012.

I have a tune that was transcribed with a repeated section, however, in the recording that I am trying to learn, the composer plays the "repeat" differently than the first time.

I want to have the "repeated" passage appear in my SW file, and add the differences.

When I copy the two pages that make up the repeated section, and then paste them at the end (after adding 1 measure) it copies the content, but all the formatting (spacing between staves etc) is lost.

How can I copy the passage just as it was, without spending time trying to re-create the initial passage's spacing etc?

Thanks.

Mac

Final SongWriter 2012
iMac OS 10.8
No MIDI
Piano only
Beginner

File Attachment :
Slan Leis an Uaigneas-Ur1-Ron.mus 53KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 342 time(s).

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 9/12/2014 9:58 AM (GMT -6)

I tried everything I could think of, and page 3 always comes in at a different staff size setting. In the full Finale, there are ways to deal with this, but I couldn't find equivalent tools in SongWriter.

I would send this in to tech support. Sorry I can't be more help.

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014c, but using 2012 again, on Mac 10.9.4
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

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N. Grossingink
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991

Posted 9/12/2014 10:08 AM (GMT -6)

Is it possible to make a new file with the same instrumentation and containing the number measures the final file would need? You could then paste in the measures from the original file. Would this preserve the staff spacing and size?

N.

Finale 2010b, 2011c, 2012c
TgTools, Patterson Plugins, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 2GB RAM - OSX 10.6.8

A fine beer may be judged with just one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.
Old Czech Proverb

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 9/12/2014 10:27 AM (GMT -6)

There's going to have to be some reformatting. However, I can see that new pages have staff size smaller. Finale has the ability to redefine the pages to the default format, so that at least that part of the work will be easier. However, I don't know that SW has that ability.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

~~Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3~~, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 9/12/2014 10:40 AM (GMT -6)

Zuill said...
There's going to have to be some reformatting. However, I can see that new pages have staff size smaller. Finale has the ability to redefine the pages to the default format, so that at least that part of the work will be easier. However, I don't know that SW has that ability.

Zuill

Not that I can find. I was going to try N.'s suggestion, but my coffee was ready. When I get back upstairs, I'll take another look.

But again, this asks the simple question: when Finale (or any of the others) add pages, why don't they get their settings from the last page? Why should we have to do this manually?

EDIT: N's solution works. I set up a new doc, with 100 measures. It set up at the smaller (default) staff size. I copied the content of the original file, and made the copy/paste edit. Finally, I deleted the few extra measures, and resized the staff to 120%, to match the size of the original. All is well.

The OP will still have to redo the general formatting: Measures per system, system spacing. But but that's just the work of a minute or two. The best advice seems to be, set up everything in advance, and work in scroll view. Save formatting and tweaking for the end.

Post Edited (Mike Rosen) : 9/12/2014 11:20:44 AM (GMT-5)

ainmpiano
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 206

Posted 9/17/2014 6:31 AM (GMT -6)

I asked tech support about this.

They said, in essence, Hmmm, no..., but that sure would be a nice feature, wouldn't it?

Apparently finale doesn't do it either.

Amazing.

Final SongWriter 2012
iMac OS 10.8
No MIDI
Piano only
Beginner

Flint
silly bear

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151

Posted 9/17/2014 11:59 AM (GMT -6)

Mike Rosen said...

But again, this asks the simple question: when Finale (or any of the others) add pages, why don't they get their settings from the last page? Why should we have to do this manually?

Because there is a specific place where you tell Finale what the default page scalings (etc.) are. That is where it pulls the specs for new pages.

My memory is failing me today, but I believe it is Format -> Score.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014 using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 9/17/2014 12:27 PM (GMT -6)

Yes, Flint, you're correct. And a default setting is a fine place to get information when you are setting up a new score. But once I've changed those settings for my piece, then I think Finale should be smart enough to see that, and to carry on in the same vein.

Maybe there are those who want to change a group of settings for pages 1-5, and then have them revert for pages 6 and on. But most of the questions about the topic seem to suggest otherwise.

ttw
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 776

Posted 9/17/2014 12:48 PM (GMT -6)

The title raises the question of whether the formatting on pasting should be that of the source or that of the target (and which formatting gets filtered.)

Finale 2011b & Finale 2012c & 2014</div>
GWI, GPO 4, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 8.1 Dell XPS 8770

Finale 2011b & Finale 2012c & 2014c

GWI, GPO 4, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

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Flint
silly bear

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151

Posted 9/17/2014 1:24 PM (GMT -6)

Mike Rosen said...
Yes, Flint, you're correct. And a default setting is a fine place to get information when you are setting up a new score. But once I've changed those settings for my piece, then I think Finale should be smart enough to see that, and to carry on in the same vein.

Maybe there are those who want to change a group of settings for pages 1-5, and then have them revert for pages 6 and on. But most of the questions about the topic seem to suggest otherwise.

I've always approached the Resize Tool as something that you use on an exception basis, not as a rule. Hence I set up my default, and thereafter only resize pages when absolutely necessary.

I can definitely see the disconnect between the two styles of working.

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 9/17/2014 1:50 PM (GMT -6)

Correct. If you set up all your measures in advance, it won't matter. And if you do everything in scroll view, and save page layout to the end, it won't matter. But many people don't work that way, particularly newer users. They want to see how it looks on a page-by-page basis.

Peter Thomsen
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331

Posted 9/17/2014 2:50 PM (GMT -6)

Mike Rosen said...
…a default setting is a fine place to get information when you are setting up a new score. But once I've changed those settings for my piece, then I think Finale should be smart enough to see that, and to carry on in the same vein…

Page Layout Tool.
Page Layout menu > Update Page Format for Score

When you have selected “Update Page Format for Score”, Finale will monitor your layout edits, and update the page format settings in “Page Layout for Score” with your layout edits.
This means that new pages added to the score will be formatted according to your latest edits.

Generally I prefer that Finale only does things when I tell it to do so, and not does things by itself.
I tend to de-select automatic features.

But I make an exception with “Update Page Format for Score” which I always keep selected.

Peter

Mac Finale, 2011c, 2012c & 2014c, Dolet 6.4 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.3, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 9/17/2014 4:17 PM (GMT -6)

Peter, thanks. That will help me, for sure. But it won't help the OP using SongWriter, which doesn't have that option.

Phrederica
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 41

Posted 6/15/2015 8:48 AM (GMT -6)

I just stumbled onto this problem. I have the full Finale (2012c.R13). I have a piece with several movements and each one had a separate Finale file. I wanted to merge them, so I added one measure onto the end of the first movement, and pasted in the second movement. No problems. Then I tried the same with the third movement, and had all kinds of troubles. The pasted section was missing the following:

repeat signs
rehearsal letters
key signature/time signature
tempo markings
tempo alterations (rit., etc)
pickup measure (the pickup measure did not get copied at all)

I tried all kinds of things before I found a solution. The third movement file had a pickup measure. I had to remove the pickup measure (I was able to keep the notes, just removed the pickup formatting). Then when I pasted the appending movement on, the formatting carried over. What a strange bug!! After pasting, I changed the former pickup measure to an invisible partial measure, and life is good again.

Using Finale 2012c.r13 for Windows

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 6/15/2015 9:30 AM (GMT -6)

Rule of thumb: avoid pickup measures entirely and just create a measure in the time signature of the upbeat, set to display as the time signature of the piece. This avoids several other problems, as well, like exporting.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014d, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.10.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB

Amsterdam

N. Grossingink
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991

Posted 6/15/2015 10:47 AM (GMT -6)

Vaughan said...
Rule of thumb: avoid pickup measures entirely and just create a measure in the time signature of the upbeat, set to display as the time signature of the piece. This avoids several other problems, as well, like exporting.

I find that using, let's say, a 1/4 measure for a quarter pickup results in the pickup measure being too wide. The measures made with the pickup tool are fine.

I always use the pickup tool because usually the file ends up not being copied, exported, etc. But yes, when in doubt, get rid of the pickups.

N.

Finale 2011c, 2012c - OSX 10.6.8
Finale 2014d - OSX 10.8.5

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 6/15/2015 12:04 PM (GMT -6)

N.,

I find the pickup measure feature to be OK, if correct playback is of no concern. The pickup measure feature places hidden rests to fill out the time signature. I don't know if the hidden rests can be exposed. If someone knows how, let us know. If the pickup is to be repeated, the playback will contain those hidden rests and the playback will have a gap where the rests are being "played". In the case of a quarter note pickup in 4/4 that is repeated, there will be 3 beats of undesirable silence.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

32 GB RAM

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD system disk

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 6/15/2015 12:18 PM (GMT -6)

Phrederica said...
I just stumbled onto this problem. I have the full Finale (2012c.R13). I have a piece with several movements and each one had a separate Finale file. I wanted to merge them, so I added one measure onto the end of the first movement, and pasted in the second movement. No problems. Then I tried the same with the third movement, and had all kinds of troubles. The pasted section was missing the following:

repeat signs
rehearsal letters
key signature/time signature
tempo markings
tempo alterations (rit., etc)
pickup measure (the pickup measure did not get copied at all)

I tried all kinds of things before I found a solution. The third movement file had a pickup measure. I had to remove the pickup measure (I was able to keep the notes, just removed the pickup formatting). Then when I pasted the appending movement on, the formatting carried over. What a strange bug!! After pasting, I changed the former pickup measure to an invisible partial measure, and life is good again.

There has been a recent thread on the reliability of the Score Merger feature. http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=455057 You might try this approach. It allows for both so called horizontal (multiple piece/movement) and vertical (conductor's score) merging. There are several options available in the dialog box.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

32 GB RAM

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD system disk

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 6/15/2015 2:22 PM (GMT -6)

N, it's indeed the case that small pickup measures can be too wide, especially if using the Finale spacing defaults. I have my minimum measure width set to 25 EVPUs and short upbeat measures are never too wide.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014d, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.10.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB

Amsterdam

Phrederica
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 41

Posted 6/15/2015 7:56 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks for all the quick replies! I must admit I was amused by N.'s misspelling of the word proofreading. (We all make quick typos, but that one was funny.)

I thought about doing a pdf style merger (appending the next movement to the last pdf). However, many of the 5 movements are less than one page long, so one page per movement would be less attractive. I had never heard of Score Merger - interesting!

Using Finale 2012c.r13 for Windows

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 6/16/2015 8:30 AM (GMT -6)

It sounds like that is what you need to "horizontally" combine the 5 short movements into one document. Undoubtedly, there will be some edits you will need to make, but the Score Merger does a pretty good job as a starting point.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

32 GB RAM

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD system disk

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

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