MakeMusic Forum

Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help

MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Copying without transposing

Forum Quick Jump

[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Ere
Lievonen

Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 266

Posted 10/16/2014 5:47 AM (GMT -6)

I want to copy and paste a passage (within the same file) to a place where the key signature is different, but I want to keep the same pitches, I don't want to transpose them.
For example, if I copy CDEFG from a C major passage, to a measure that has G major key signature, I get GABCD. But I want CDEFG.
Of course I can use the transpose command afterwards, but why should I have to do it so complicated? What setting am I missing here?

Finale 2010b. Finale user since 1994.
Windows 7 & Mac OS X 10.9.5
www.erelievonen.eu

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 10/16/2014 9:03 AM (GMT -6)

I'm not sure there is a way.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

~~Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3~~, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 10/16/2014 9:10 AM (GMT -6)

What is "complicated" about copying then transposing?

Finale 2014c with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

violin and flamenco guitar, composer

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Gareth Green
Player of fine trumpets

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 2943

Posted 10/16/2014 9:33 AM (GMT -6)

It used to be possible in earlier versions of Finale, but no longer, it seems; can't remember exactly when it changed.
I'm at a bit of a loss as to why removing the functionality was seen as desirable.

Gareth J. Green

Fin2014c
Windows 7

N. Grossingink
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991

Posted 10/16/2014 11:47 AM (GMT -6)

There is a way to do what you want, but to me it's more complicated than simply transposing.

Do not change the key; copy in the passages. When done copying, change to the new key - in the Key Signature dialog, select "Hold Notes to Original Pitches-Enharmonically". If you need to copy several passages, the transposition turns into a single keystroke operation. Maybe this will work for you.

As far as I'm concerned, simply transposing is easiest and more predictable.

N.

Finale 2010b, 2011c, 2012c
TgTools, Patterson Plugins, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 2GB RAM - OSX 10.6.8

If a composer so young can write a symphony like this, in five years he'll be ready to commit murder!

–Conductor Walter Damrosch on Aaron Copland's "Organ Symphony"

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 10/16/2014 12:21 PM (GMT -6)

>What is "complicated" about copying then transposing?

If you're doing it a lot and there are multiple keys involved, it does seem tedious if not complicated. You have to select the target passage and get the number of measures right, and figure out what the interval should be ("B major to Eb major--augmented 4th or diminished 5th?") Looks like Finale transposes up, so you need to pick Down and Chromatic in the Transpose dialog, neither of which are the default, then pick the interval from a drop-down menu with literally 27 choices.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, USB Keystation 61

Post Edited (Motet) : 10/16/2014 12:24:17 PM (GMT-5)

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 10/16/2014 4:41 PM (GMT -6)

With this example (C to G), down a perfect 5th would work. I don't recall having the option in the past to transpose or not when copying between keys. I remember copying and transposing when needed. I guess my memory is failing.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

ttw
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 776

Posted 10/16/2014 4:57 PM (GMT -6)

I'm pretty sure that copying without transposing wasn't possible back to 2004. The only time I have trouble is when I forget that I have copied from one key to a different one with the same key signature. I've gotten in the habit of putting double bars to separate sections for this reason.

Finale 2011b & Finale 2012c & 2014</div>
GWI, GPO 4, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 8.1 Dell XPS 8770

Finale 2011b & Finale 2012c & 2014c

GWI, GPO 4, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 8.1 HP Envy Notebook

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 10/17/2014 1:02 PM (GMT -6)

This won't work for 2010. In fact, it only works in 2014, due to the new Keyless Key Signature option.

In 2014, change the source region signature to Keyless, then copy/paste to the destination. Lastly, change the source region back to the chosen Key Signature.

This might be about the same amount of work as copying and then transposing, but might simplify things in select circumstances.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Ere
Lievonen

Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 266

Posted 10/18/2014 4:40 PM (GMT -6)

Thank you for all who have replied. Indeed it is now confirmed that I did not miss any simple way to solve this.

I do think it's pretty idiotic that this auto-transposing feature when copying has no option of being switched off.
In the Key Signature Tool, when changing key signature, we have all sorts of options for transposing or not, so why not here?
To sum up: If I want to copy a passage to another key AND transpose it, I can simply do one copy-paste operation to accomplish both. Great.
But if I want to copy a passage and NOT transpose it, I have to first copy, then execute an EXTRA transposition operation, while figuring out myself what is the correct transposition interval (something that Finale could easily have calculated for me).
If this is not counter-intuitive, then what is??

OK, end rant...

Finale 2010b. Finale user since 1994.
Windows 7 & Mac OS X 10.9.5
www.erelievonen.eu

Kiki
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/29/2015 6:54 AM (GMT -6)

I would need this feature every day.
I can only agree with Ere, this is one of the typical non user-friendly defaults in Finale.

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 1/29/2015 8:00 AM (GMT -6)

I do not agree that it is "counter-intuitive" and "non user-friendly" to automatically transpose the notes in a copy-paste operation. When one copies music from, say an English Horn to a viola, I assume you want the same notes sounded, not something a 5th higher. To me it would be completely wrong if Finale did not transpose copied notes properly.

Kiki
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/29/2015 9:11 AM (GMT -6)

The point is not to automatically transpose any note, but to have the choice to do it.
For example I have now a tune in F, some bars including a C7 chord for a guitar.
Later in the same tune I change key to Ab and want the guitar to play again a C7 chord.
It would be verey usefull to be able to copy and paste this C7 chord like it is, instead of getting first a Eb7 and then transpose it.
Maybe you never need this kind of utility, it is of course difficult to understand each others needs,
since we use Finale in many different ways.

twistiejoe
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 218

Posted 10/1/2016 4:50 PM (GMT -6)

To me this definitely is complicated (that Finale automatically transposes music without even WARNING you when you're pasting between different time signatures). It also seems compltely counter-intuitive. What possible reason would people have to use it this way? The possiblity of making terrible errors because of this is high. Finale should reverse this stupid feature.

Finale 2014 Full Version
Long-time Sibelius user trying to learn how to use Finale. Help me please!

Derrek
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347

Posted 10/1/2016 5:00 PM (GMT -6)

Time signatures or Key signatures?

Finale 2014.5, Finale 25 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

Forum Information

Currently it is Tuesday, December 19, 2023 8:15 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual