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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Scanning into Finale, is there a step-by-step approach? | Forum Quick Jump
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Ed Cupman
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 97
| Posted 6/5/2015 12:18 PM (GMT -6) |   | I've been using Finale almost every day now for 15 years. Over the course of that time I've made a few stabs at trying to scan music into a Finale document. Every time I've tried, the results were so bad that I would end up programing the music in myself. Eventually, I just gave up on scanning altogether.
So my question is, does anyone know of a step-by-step approach to scanning music into Finale? A sure-fire way, that has worked for them, that will, without too many headaches, get a typical piece of sheet music into a Finale document?
Thanks, Ed
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 6/5/2015 1:27 PM (GMT -6) | | | There have literally been thousands of threads on this subject. Use your browser search engine and search for something like this, sans quotes, "site:forum.makemusic.com scanning".
If I were going to try scanning, I would use Sharpeye, no longer being supported, but still available, AFAIK. http://www.visiv.co.uk/ It produces a MusicXML 2.0/2.1 file that can be imported into Finale. Provided the original document to be interpreted is clean and not too complicated, Sharpeye does a pretty good job, though no music recognition algorithm is going to produce perfect results. Editing, usually extensive, will be necessary. Mileage varies, so you just have to try it and see what you get.
There used to be a tutorial presented by an MM representative that gave a step-by-step approach to using the Smartscore Lite program bundled in Finale, but I cannot find it anymore in the video library, http://www.finalemusic.com/support/learning-center/video-library/
You might find this link helpful, http://tomrudolph.berkleemusicblogs.com/2008/04/18/let%e2%80%99s-talk-scanning-and-music-notation/
BTW, Sharpeye does not support MusicXML 2.0/2.1. My error, sorry. It only supports MusicXML 1.0/1.1.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
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Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 6/7/2015 4:32:32 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
 
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 6/5/2015 1:39 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 6/7/2015 10:47 AM (GMT -6) | | Feel free to believe that. This is the same sort of argument as Simple vs. Speedy, or Finale vs. Sibelius.
There is no definite, final answer that will be true in all cases, just, whatever works for you.
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
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"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker." | | Back to Top | |
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John Ruggero
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2000
Total Posts : 820
| Posted 6/7/2015 1:14 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi, Dave.
It's like what was said. It depends on what you are scanning. If it is a single-line instrumental part of not great complexity, it is probably better to scan it. You'll save time.
I am attaching three examples. (I am not a power user of SmartScore and just use it on occasions when it saves me time. So please forgive me, SmartScore experts if these are not a good representation. Maybe others would attach better examples of what can be done.)
The Bach and Beethoven examples received no editing in SmartScore or Finale. The Brahms received two bar line edits in SmartScore and one in Finale. They took seconds to produce. I estimate proofreading and cleanup to vary from a minute to five minutes. Some might equal this in Hyperscribe, but I could not, even though I am a keyboard player.
So I guess the question is, would one want to start with a blank page or start with this. It is matter of preference.
One should also take into account that multiple pages are as easy to produce as one, especially if one is working from a preexisting PDF. So the entire work, or many such works can be produced in seconds. That is not the case for proofreading and cleanup, of course, which will vary depending on the complexity of the music. In many cases, Finale input will be required in whole measures or more. But that would be the case for the entire work if scanning were not involved.
I would attach more impressive examples, but unfortunately the results are best when working from the clean, very well engraved Urtext editions that are under copyright protection, and I don't want to risk it.
One can see in the Beethoven example that SmartScore sometimes runs into real issues with tuplets, knowing their extent and mistaking fingerings for tuplet signs. On the other hand, I am using an older version of SmartScore. Maybe this has improved.
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File Attachment :
Bach Violin Partita D minor BWC 1004.pdf 46KB (application/pdf)This file has been downloaded 326 time(s).
File Attachment :
Brahms Symphony 1 Violin 1.pdf 35KB (application/pdf)This file has been downloaded 440 time(s).
File Attachment :
Beethoven Sonata op. 2 no1.pdf 45KB (application/pdf)This file has been downloaded 483 time(s). | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 6/7/2015 1:52 PM (GMT -6) | | Regarding triplets: my experience has been that if it gets one or two of them right, it will get them all right. And if the first two are wrong, they are all wrong!
However... To correct the missed tuplets, all you do is select the triplet tool, and drag over the group of notes. Done. And after you've done a couple of them, the program asks if you want it to correct all similar situations. Now, I'm not saying that this will work this easily for mixed or complex tuplets, but for the basic ones, that's good enough for me.
Another weakness I've found is when the number of staves changes from system to system. Then, SSP will often assign the notes to the wrong staves. This is correctable, but it can be hard to learn the system, as it isn't very intuitive.
Probably the biggest weakness is missed notes or incorrect durations. However, when you bring the score into SmartScore to edit, you get a stacked view, with the imported view above, and the scanned view, below. And measures with incorrect durations are highlighted. So it's easy to look at the measure and see what's wrong with it. And it's easy to correct.
Of course there are mistakes. Missed accidentals, the occasional wrong note... But, no more than I would make on my own initial entry.
I have successfully scanned, edited, exported, imported, and proofread, 10 and 12 page 4-part choral with piano scores, in a lot less time than they would have taken me in Simple.
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html
Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014d, on Yosemite 10.10.3
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."Post Edited (Mike Rosen) : 6/7/2015 2:01:47 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 6/8/2015 9:30 AM (GMT -6) | | When I do the scan recognition, I turn off the option to recognize text. This eliminates a lot of those editorial marks and fingerings.
I ran the Bach though SmartScore. There were no incorrect notes, except for one missing natural. I had to correct a few spots where the 16th notes were picked up as 8ths.
Total time to get it into Finale, less than 5 minutes. It still needs some editing, but here it is in rough import.
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html
Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014d, on Yosemite 10.10.3
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."
File Attachment :
bach.musx 96KB (application/octet-stream)This file has been downloaded 269 time(s). | | Back to Top | |
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 6/8/2015 10:58 AM (GMT -6) | | I tried Mike's experiment except with Sharpeye.
First of all, Sharpeye cannot open PDF files, so I had to convert the PDF to an uncompressed TIF file. Sharpeye will not read compressed TIF files, so be aware of that caveat.
Sharpeye read the file with only 3 measures with rhythm issues, and no incorrect notes, AFAICT. I corrected those using the Sharpeye editor, rather cumbersome for a Finale user, but doable.
I saved as an MusicXML file and imported into Finale.
Attached is the unedited MUSX file for comparison with Mile's effort. There are still a few edits that need to be made in order to get the exact original, but they are easy to do within Finale.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
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"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
File Attachment :
Bach VIolin Partita original.musx 97KB (application/octet-stream)This file has been downloaded 285 time(s). | | Back to Top | |
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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638
| Posted 6/16/2015 12:31 PM (GMT -6) | | | Neuratron just announced an update to PhotoScore Ultimate 8.0.1 and also their other product AudioScore Ultimate 8. (updates are $99 USD + $50 USD, or free if full product purchased after 4/11/15)
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)
32 GB RAM
Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram
512 GB SSD system disk
Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030
GPO4.02
Cakewalk SONAR X3
"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell
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