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MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Plug-In Development - FORUM HAS MOVED! > New Beta plug-in: JW Change v0.27 | Forum Quick Jump
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| KennethKen Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998 Total Posts : 2570 | Posted 2/16/2012 5:34 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for the new beta Jari! I'll go through more of it this weekend. On a quick look, I think "Vertical Level" is much better and more specific than "Placement" (although it does sounds a bit "odd"). Can the "Clear Position" heading be clearer with requiring me to open the container to see that it's just able to do horizontal clearing. Wouldn't "Clear Horizontal Position" be clearer from the beginning?
Along those same lines where is the analog, "Clear Vertical Level"? I kind of know where it is from our exchanges on this board but the average user may not. I think their first instinct will be like mine was (and still is) - to look in the "Clear Position" container. Of course, but using the word "Level" instead of "Position" you have made a little distinction between the two functions but I don't know if a user will pick that up. For the sake of argument let's say they do recognize the distinction before the go searching. Wouldn't the logical place for a resetting of the vertical level be underneath that container in a container titled "Clear Vertical Level"? I'm not sure anyone will naturally look in the Placement Style container, especially if , by the same argument we just used, using the word "Displacement" in "...+Clear Displacement") draws a distinction from "Level" in "Vertical Level".
Furthermore, "Floating (+Clear Displacement) and "Floating" both appear to clear the vertical leveling. So which one does the user apply. Could there be a "Clear Vertical Level" command added under "Vertical Level" that uses the correct one (even if it is a duplicate of one of the "Floating" commands). I think this would make things easier for the user to find and understand. The fact that it clears the vertical leveling by re-floating rests and is the duplicate of "Placement Style/Floating..." can be discloased in its description.
Ken
Still like Vertical Position better. Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012, Core i7 920@2.67Ghz, 6GB Ram
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| KennethKen Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998 Total Posts : 2570 | Posted 2/16/2012 8:20 PM (GMT -6) | |
Jari Williamsson said... "Clear Position [Horizontal]" - how's that? I would like the function names to be consistent, but I also agree with your point.
That's clear. I understand the desire to keep things consistent. Just remember that this can be misleading if the command doesn't do the same thing as it does elsewhere. E.g., "Articulations/Clear Position" clears both horizontal and vertical adjustments (see my next post for some surprising behaviour) whereas "Rests/Clear Position" does not clear both horizontal and vertical adjustments. The two commands don't do the same thing so they shouldn't be titled the same. I think your idea of "Clear Position [Horizontal]" is a good mix of consistency and distinction.
Jari Williamsson said...
KennethKen said... Along those same lines where is the analog, "Clear Vertical Level"? I don't believe there would never be an agreement among users on what's a "cleared" vertical rest really is. For example: in music with just occasional very small sections with multiple layers, I personally believe that the default/cleared state of rests still is at the standard position (not at the layer option vertical position).
What about something like "Undo What You Did With The Vertical Level Command"?
"Clear Position [Horiztonal]" is like an undo for the "Horizontal Position" command. There should be an easily recognizable one for the "Vertical Level" command (without the user having to go through Finale's undo list and undoing everything that he did since it was applied).
At the very least, it may be helpful to have in the description for "Vertical Level" a clue to the command that will undo it (e.g., "Applying the Rests/Placement Style/Floating will undo this command".) But if it's not too much work I think having a separate command - like "Clear Position [Horizontal]" - is easlier for the user.
Ken
PS I assume putting all these clearing/resetting commands in this plugin within the same container as the command that makes the initial adjustment is out of the question...?
Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012, Core i7 920@2.67Ghz, 6GB Ram
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| KennethKen Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998 Total Posts : 2570 | Posted 2/16/2012 8:30 PM (GMT -6) | |
- I have a measure with an upstem 1/8 note and a downstem 1/8 note.
- The 1st note has a staccato under it and the 2nd has an accent over it.
- I run Articulations/Horizontal Position with "50" input in the box. Everything moves to the right as expected.
- I run Articulations/Vertical Position with "50" input in the box. The staccato moves down and the accent moves up. I suppose this makes sense as the number increases the distance the articulation is away from the notehead (of course a large negative number would do the same in the opposite direction). However, you may want to clarify the movement in this command's description. Someone could easily think that inputting "50" should move everything in one direction - up 50EVPUs - and -50 would move everything down.
- I run Articulations/Clear Position. The articulations don't go back to their "original" positions - the positions they were in before I moved them with the other commands. It appears that this command is equivalent to setting the vertical and horizontal positions to "0" which is, apparently, different from their defaults. This is not intuitive and it looks like a bug. To get them back to their default position I have to select the articulations and hit the BACKSPACE key. I would expect the "Clear Position" command to be equivalent to hitting the BACKSPACE key (i.e., removing manual or plugin enacted positioning). "Clear Position" certainly doesn't "Reset manual positioning of the articulation" as its description says - it actual "sets" it to 0. (The "re" implies a return to a previous setting.)
Ken
Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012, Core i7 920@2.67Ghz, 6GB Ram
Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc.Post Edited (KennethKen) : 2/16/2012 8:05:53 PM (GMT-6) | Back to Top | |
| KennethKen Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998 Total Posts : 2570 | Posted 2/16/2012 10:06 PM (GMT -6) | |
I don't know how easy it is to add fonts to the font lists in the plugin (e.g., noteheads/fonts, articulations/fonts, etc.) but here are a few that I've found useful over the years.
MetTimes, MetHelvetica (not show but by the same vendor), Metronome, DVMarticulations, Kidnotes
CrescendoFLF, GraceNotesFLF
Ken PS Why are MaestroWide, EngraverFontExtr, Maestro Percussion in the lists?
Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012, Core i7 920@2.67Ghz, 6GB Ram
Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc.Post Edited (KennethKen) : 2/16/2012 9:14:02 PM (GMT-6) | Back to Top | |
| KennethKen Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998 Total Posts : 2570 | Posted 2/17/2012 7:24 AM (GMT -6) | |
Jari Williamsson said...
KennethKen said... What about something like "Undo What You Did With The Vertical Level Command"? In this case, I think it's better that the user creates a (one-step) Sequence with the wanted reset functionality. I was afraid you were going to say that. So if I want to reset a bunch of different articulations to their defaults I'll have to write a sequence that includes each articulation with its original vertical and horizontal setting. Since Finale ships with various articulations having different default vertical and handle positions this would be a rather tedious sequence to create (even worst if someone has changed the defaults for their file - you couldn't reuse the sequences you had already made for the "out-of-the-box" settings.
I think people will be surprised that the BACKSPACE keystroke actually provides quicker functionality than a Williamsson plugin! Of course, if they were hoping to use the filters in your plugin to speed selection of the articulations then they'll have to do the math to see what takes longer - lasso-ing all the particular articulations that they want and hitting BACKSPACE vs writing a sequence for accents, staccatos, etc.
Is there a symbol or number that can be typed in the plugin that means "reset to whatever this element's default is" so that we wouldn't have to put specific numbers in for the different articulation sequence(s)?
Ken
I still think people will be surprised to see their articulations move when they apply "Clear Position". "Clear" usually means "back to factory settings" which in Finale's case is usually not "0". A common application would be if a person manually moved (or received a file with moved) articulations and wanted to reset a bunch of them in a selected area. There may be some that are already in their default position and some that have been manually moved. A user sees "Clear Position" and thinks they can just use that to put everything back to the default only to fine out this is not the case. Something like " Set to 0" is not as elegant as " Clear Position" but much clearer, more predictable and the results less confusing (and possibly more practical). Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012, Core i7 920@2.67Ghz, 6GB Ram
Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc. | Back to Top | |
| Jari Williamsson Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998 Total Posts : 3246 | Posted 2/17/2012 1:49 PM (GMT -6) | | |
| michelp Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 2232 | Posted 3/21/2012 9:18 AM (GMT -6) | | Hello Jari,
The plug-in allows the horizontal position of note entries to be modified. But the frequent request for an occasional centered whole note is hard to achieve there. Would you consider to add an option "center in measure" if the thing is doable ? Unless you have a better idea on how to achieve this purpose. A word of explanation of the effect of the Relative checkbox would also be welcome. Thanks again. Michel Finale 2012a, 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.7.3 (Lion), Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 8 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. Midi interface : MOTU Midi Express XT. Roland Sound Canvas SC88-vl.Post Edited (michelp) : 3/21/2012 9:21:49 AM (GMT-5) | Back to Top | |
| KennethKen Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998 Total Posts : 2570 | Posted 3/22/2012 2:41 PM (GMT -6) | | Jari,
I've gotten accustom to the TGTools plugins' "Collapse When Inactive" & "After Go: Close / Inactive" options. Given the modeless nature of your plugins and their usefulness when editing it makes more sense to keep the plugins open while working. However, one can quickly find that they obscure the score, especially JW Change which benefits from having a slightly larger window but may need to alternate focus with the main Finale window. Is there any way you could add an option to make the plugins smaller when they don't have focus or is that stealing Tobias's thunder (minimizing has been around since the early days on windows but I didn't know if there was some sort of plugin developers code of honor).
Ken Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012, Core i7 920@2.67Ghz, 6GB Ram
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