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Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 8/18/2016 4:41 PM (GMT -6)

I suspect the 64-bit-rewrite was largely mechanical, meaning that existing bugs will still be there. I think MM is to be congratulated on a process that sounds like it went well, though. I expected more troubles than I'm hearing about.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Flint
silly bear

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151

Posted 8/18/2016 5:47 PM (GMT -6)

I'm extremely disappointed that the limit of 32k~ Active Frames apparently wasn't addressed and increased (or removed).

This means that I'll be forced to either reduce the amount of cues in the score (not musician-friendly) or immeasurably complicate the part-making process by breaking the score into separate movements (not user-friendly). All that for a score that's not even that long (1,000~ measures, 30 minutes of music), and the file's not even slow or difficult to work with.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 1:35 AM (GMT -6)

I've downloaded the demo and toyed around with it a bit.

It turns out the large time signatures thing is pointless for me.

As for the 64 bit thing, well, it WOULD have been useful had MakeMusic continued supporting my libraries that actually could BENEFIT from the thing being 64 bit!!!

So colour me underwhelmed.

I'll continue playing with it to see if any other "improvements" make much of a difference in my workflow.
Right now, Finale 25 is looking an awful lot like Finale 2014.5 to me... pointless.

Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries) under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

hgl
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 89

Posted 8/19/2016 4:07 AM (GMT -6)

Does anyone know if F25 uses the XSample Chamber Ensemble correctly?

Thanks.

Finale 2015.5 on a Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus
64-bit Windows 10
Intel i7 CPU @ 1.80GHz
8.0GB main memory
256GB solid state disk

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 7:18 AM (GMT -6)

hgl said...
Does anyone know if F25 uses the XSample Chamber Ensemble correctly?

Thanks.

That is something I have to test later today.
I don't have the latest version of XSample, since it requires the extra purchase of full Kontakt 5.
I have the version that uses the Kontakt Player.

Bill Reed
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1203

Posted 8/19/2016 7:39 AM (GMT -6)

There's no reason it shouldn't. v25 has the same functionality as 2014.5. Kontakt loads and play fine.

Finale 2014, Sibelius 8.3, Notion 5, Overture 5, Cubase 8
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190

Daz
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723

Posted 8/19/2016 8:09 AM (GMT -6)

Hi Michael

Michel R. E. said...

hgl said...
Does anyone know if F25 uses the XSample Chamber Ensemble correctly?

Thanks.

That is something I have to test later today.
I don't have the latest version of XSample, since it requires the extra purchase of full Kontakt 5.
I have the version that uses the Kontakt Player.

Just make sure that you load the 64 bit version of Kontakt.
Finale 25 will not load any 32 bit VST's without a VST bridge.

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 9:47 AM (GMT -6)

Bill Reed said...
There's no reason it shouldn't. v25 has the same functionality as 2014.5. Kontakt loads and play fine.

The Garritan Stradivari and Gofriller cello solo libraries also load fine in the last version of the Kontakt player, and in fact, play beautifully with Finale 2012.
However, Finale 2014 does NOT play well with these libraries, and there seems to be no way of getting Finale to send the correct information via KP.
Xsamples also uses Kontakt Player, and if the same changes they brought to Finale 2014 were aggravated in Finale 25 then there are good chances that XCE won't work there either.

Bill Reed
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1203

Posted 8/19/2016 10:40 AM (GMT -6)

I can only guess that the Stradivari and Gofriller issue is intentional on the part of MM, since they don't own the rights to it, and there seems to be copyright issues. Otherwise, HP hasn't changed for a long time. Did the integration in 2012 go beyond what could be done with any 3rd part library?

Finale 2014, Sibelius 8.3, Notion 5, Overture 5, Cubase 8
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 11:25 AM (GMT -6)

MakeMusic don't "own the rights" to any of the non-garritan libraries that can be used within Finale. that isn't an excuse for them not working.

XSample Chamber Ensemble isn't owned by Finale and yet functioned absolutely flawlessly within Finale 2012.

The Strad and Gofriller require Kontakt Player. I've been able to make them work with Kontakt Player 5, but Finale and HumanPlayback no longer seem to send the correct signals for dynamics and for slurs and playing techniques as of Finale 2014.

Sadly, Finale 25 seems to suffer the same fate.

I tried loading XSamples, and I could get sound out of it, but none of the expressiveness that used to come with Finale+HP+XCE.

I will dig into it more, it's taken me forever to get through MakeMusic's arcane directory structure for plugins and support. Nothing is in the same directory. You have to go to "program files", and to "program files x86" (whatever that means), and to "program data"... I don't understand why everything can't be in one damned folder.

As of now, Finale 25 doesn't recognize Kontakt Player 2. So I have to continue experimenting with Kontakt 5.
I also can't figure out where soundmaps are. Eventually I'll find them. But I spend far more time trying to find the damned directories than I do actually experimenting with Finale 25.

I'm going to repeat that I am far from impressed with this new release. This would make two releases in a row that are basically unusable.

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 11:41 AM (GMT -6)

I was able to get XCE (XSample Chamber Ensemble) to work... HOWEVER

MakeMusic have removed the Ambience (reverb) which we used to be able to add either globally, or individually per player loaded.
Now you get the message that "Garritan Ambience is no longer supported" and you have to go into the ARIA player to set it.
So it looks like MakeMusic are playing some sort of protectionist game here.
"You want effects, then you must use our products, and ONLY ours".

I call BS on MakeMusic.

These are changes that will encourage people to switch programs when a good alternative comes by (looking at you, ex-Sibelius employees).

So while before I was saying "colour me less than impressed", I can now truly say "colour me pissed off and unhappy".

winknotes
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 418

Posted 8/19/2016 12:26 PM (GMT -6)

I wonder if Ambience isn't 64-bit and that's why it's no longer supported? That would be unfortunate for those using a different player than Aria.

Steve Winkler

Finale 2009c, 2011b, 2012c
GPO, GPO4, JABB3, VSL SE/SE+
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

Daz
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723

Posted 8/19/2016 1:02 PM (GMT -6)

Hi

Look to this page to get some history on the Garritan Ambience module. It is 64 bit for the Mac, but not for Windows.

The fact that they've included it into the Aria player is just doing something similar to Kontakt which has had reverb built into its player since version 2.
You'll notice that Aria also now has Convolution reverb as well. (I'm not certain when that appeared, but it was not there when Aria first came out)

There are other VST reverb effects out there if you are using a variety of vst instruments in addition to Aria.
One freebie is Sanford Reverb. You can see a review here

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit

CraigP
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts : 313

Posted 8/19/2016 1:53 PM (GMT -6)

Daz said...

The fact that they've included it into the Aria player is just doing something similar to Kontakt which has had reverb built into its player since version 2.
You'll notice that Aria also now has Convolution reverb as well. (I'm not certain when that appeared, but it was not there when Aria first came out)

I think both reverbs have been in Aria for at least 5 years, at least on the Windows version.

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 2:06 PM (GMT -6)

hgl said...
Does anyone know if F25 uses the XSample Chamber Ensemble correctly?

Thanks.

I finally got Finale 25 to recognize XSample, and I installed the suggested Rverb plug-in (which I obviously need to learn more about).

So yes, I can confirm that Finale + HP + XCE DO work.

here's an audio sample (kept the wave, so it might be a bit big loading)
By the way, Finale 25 kept crashing when I tried to get it to only export an excerpt from the file. it would start the export, then "Finale is no longer responding" and it would crash

www.dosblanc.ca/music/extrait_03_grazioso.wav

The excerpt in question uses lots of staccato, pizz, tremolo, and harmonics. So it shows that Finale 25 does send the correct KS for XCE to work properly.
It's a piece for clarinet and string quartet, all of which are from XCE in this recording. volumes haven't been adjusted, the clarinet is a tiny bit softer than it should be (and was, in live performance).

Post Edited (Michel R. E.) : 8/19/2016 2:12:24 PM (GMT-5)

CraigP
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts : 313

Posted 8/19/2016 2:23 PM (GMT -6)

Michel R. E. said...

I can confirm that Finale + HP + XCE DO work.

Love the composition, and it sounds like the sound integration was very successful.

(And a little nod to Danse Macabre in the middle.)

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 2:30 PM (GMT -6)

CraigP said...

Michel R. E. said...

I can confirm that Finale + HP + XCE DO work.

Love the composition, and it sounds like the sound integration was very successful.

(And a little nod to Danse Macabre in the middle.)

hehehe, thank-you. It's actually part (3rd of 4 movements) of a piece for clarinet quintet + narration, a bit like Peter and the Wolf, and yes, it's a story that involves the Devil, so 1st and 2nd violin get to toss their diabolus in musica around quite a bit.

CraigP
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts : 313

Posted 8/19/2016 2:47 PM (GMT -6)

Michel R. E. said...
it's a story that involves the Devil

What, no bagpipes available?

hgl
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 89

Posted 8/19/2016 2:48 PM (GMT -6)

Thank you, Michael R.E. Very useful.

Can you provide details regarding what you had to do to make XCE work?

Thanks, again.

Finale 2015.5 on a Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus
64-bit Windows 10
Intel i7 CPU @ 1.80GHz
8.0GB main memory
256GB solid state disk

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 3:00 PM (GMT -6)

hgl said...
Thank you, Michael R.E. Very useful.

Can you provide details regarding what you had to do to make XCE work?

Thanks, again.

It required a lot of trial and error.
Finding where the .dll files were hidden
Knowing which ones to copy where
Getting the latest version of Kontakt Player (5 is the latest version)

You still have to import a file with the XCE HP preferences in it.

Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/19/2016 3:01 PM (GMT -6)

CraigP said...

Michel R. E. said...
it's a story that involves the Devil

What, no bagpipes available?

I said the Devil, not the apocalypse!

Benjamin Tubb
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2000
Total Posts : 903

Posted 8/19/2016 4:00 PM (GMT -6)

I just installed the update, and considering that due to a software problem, reported to Tech Support with no solution, running the previous version (2014.5) that I had, required me to use just the 2014 version (or 2012), having the new version install and run without ANY problems, was a great relief!

Benjamin Robert Tubb, Finale Engraver
Finale v25, 1.9 GHz HP Pavilion Entertainment Notebook dv7-7121nr;
Windows 10 (64-bit) with 16 GB RAM
SONAR Platinum (Version 2016.04),
Harmony Assistant with its Virtual Singer module
EDIROL UM-880 8-in/8-out USB MIDI Interface / MIDI Patcher
Owner of Public Domain Music
Editor and Compiler of
Henry Clay Work: Complete Songs and Choruses (2002)
Arthur Clifton (aka Philip Antony Corri): Selected American Songs (2009)
All are published by Kallisti Music Press.

Post Edited (Benjamin Tubb) : 8/19/2016 4:13:54 PM (GMT-5)

Credo
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 142

Posted 8/19/2016 5:27 PM (GMT -6)

Michel R. E. said...
I was able to get XCE (XSample Chamber Ensemble) to work... HOWEVER

MakeMusic have removed the Ambience (reverb) which we used to be able to add either globally, or individually per player loaded.
Now you get the message that "Garritan Ambience is no longer supported" and you have to go into the ARIA player to set it.
So it looks like MakeMusic are playing some sort of protectionist game here.
"You want effects, then you must use our products, and ONLY ours".

I call BS on MakeMusic.

These are changes that will encourage people to switch programs when a good alternative comes by (looking at you, ex-Sibelius employees).

So while before I was saying "colour me less than impressed", I can now truly say "colour me pissed off and unhappy".

It's not a protectionist scheme. It's simply that Ambience doesn't exist in a 64bit version, so they decided to drop it. Perhaps someday Ambience will get a 64bit version, or Finale will incorporate its own 32bit bridge (neither are very likely anytime soon).

I'm having no problem running my VST effects here. The catch is, they need to be 64bit.
For EQ, delay, standard and multi compression here are some great, fully featured free ones available in 64bit:
www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/

I did find this free 64bit reverb plugin today, though I've never tried it personally:
Abstract Chamber

For reverbs I use some things I've purchased from "Waves" in 64bit some time ago. Back then I could NOT find any free 64bit reverbs. The MSR on these are a bit pricy, but they're constantly running weekly 'deals'...seems like I picked up both of these reverbs for around $80US each. I just kept checking the daily/weekly deals until they showed up for a good price :) They also slash prices a good bit if you buy 3 or more plugins in the same cart.
IR1 Convolution Reverb
IR-L Convolution Reverb (In my case this came with the Parametric version at no extra charge)
Renaissance Reverb

There just aren't many 'free' 64bit reverbs out there that I can find. Ambience (like came with Finale) hasn't been updated in ages, and AFAIK there isn't any 64bit version.

You might have some success getting your old 32bit plugins to work with something like jBridge (shareware). The library of 'free' plugins in 32bit is substantially larger than for 64bit, so it might be worth your trouble to see if jBridge works for you in Finale. If so it should be less than a 20 to fully register it.
jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge

Post Edited (Credo) : 8/19/2016 5:57:01 PM (GMT-5)

bpalm
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2014
Total Posts : 34

Posted 8/23/2016 7:38 AM (GMT -6)

I know people wanted 64bit Finale, and I agree it was needed, but did they really have to flat out kill the 32bit altogether? Countless other programs out there migrate to 64bit and have no problem keeping an x86 of their software alongside. It was absolutely stupid of MakeMusic to give us 64bit Finale at the expense of having NO MORE 32bit. Breaking plugins (third-party) was quite possibly their biggest mistake. Oh well. At least people get their 64bit Finale!

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 8/23/2016 9:29 AM (GMT -6)

Duh! There are still all the previous 32 bit versions of Finale. Nothing prevents you from continuing to use them for 32 bit needs. F25 is movin' on, as they say, and dumping extraneous baggage that doesn't fit in the 64 bit paradigm. The move may be a little slow, but it is happening.

Just my 2¢

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)

3.50 gigahertz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)

32638 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory, 17514.37 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 - 4GB [Display adapter]

ASUS Rampage V Extreme motherboard, Realtek HD Audio

Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

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