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Michel R. E.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430

Posted 8/21/2016 7:09 PM (GMT -6)

I've never touched the tempo or MIDI tools.

if I need fine-tuning of tempos I have a stack of non-printing (invisible) tempo markings, they take very little room, usually nothing more than q=60 (with a quarter note replacing the letter).

Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries) under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

KennethKen
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2570

Posted 8/21/2016 7:16 PM (GMT -6)

Wiggy said...

CubanBach said...
Finale should be about music - not software...

What does that even mean? Finale IS software, which attempts to assist in the replication of music notation, using methods provided by the designers.

I think what CubanBach may be trying to say is that the software should be designed to accommodate the composer in the creation of music as opposed to accommodating the programmers (i.e., one less tool to have to maintain/test/troubleshoot). Finale is the method provided by the designer to replicate music notation and this latest version has become less of a help than before in certain context. I think he's making a cost-benefit analysis on the tempo issue and sees the musician coming up shorter (irrespective of a learning curve).

Did I get that right Señor CubanBach?

Maybe removal of the Tempo Tool fixed 172 bugs...that they didn't bother to list. tongue

Ken

Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2014, Core i7 2700K@3.50Ghz, 8GB Ram

http://www.AmisMusicalCircle.com

Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc.

Andrew Emmet
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 279

Posted 8/23/2016 8:25 PM (GMT -6)

Just downloaded the Finale 25 trial.
Trying to work out how to use the midi tool to change tempos.
I always used the Tempo Tool before, and found it easy to set the tempo for each beat of the bar.
I don't use Human Playback.
How do I do that now?

Thanks anyone!

Finale 2012b.r1
Notepad 2012

iMac 27" 10.11.1 3.2 GHz Intel Core i3
Memory 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3

iMac 27" 10.11.1 4 GHz Intel Core i7
16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 Retina

13" Macbook Pro. 10.11.1
Memory 4GB 2.4GHz Intel Core i5

15" Macbook Pro. Retina.
10.11.1 2.5GHz Intel Core i7
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A Cappella Choir Director And Arranger.

Dave Lang
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 364

Posted 8/23/2016 8:42 PM (GMT -6)

What I do (though I don't set multiple tempos often) is go

Tools > Midi

then to

Midi Tool and select Tempo

then select the measures I want to change (for me usually just select all)

then

Midi Tool > Set to

then put the tempo value you want in the Set To window

hope that's helpful

MacBook Pro Retina 15" (late 2013), OSX 10.11.6, Finale 2014.5, Finale 25

Andrew Emmet
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 279

Posted 8/23/2016 8:57 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks Dave.
I can set the tempo for the bar there, but how do I set the tempo for each beat?
i quite often do that for slowing down, and also setting a hidden rest for maybe quite a long pause.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 8/24/2016 12:10 AM (GMT -6)

Just drag select the beats one at a time and set the tempo.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Andrew Emmet
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 279

Posted 8/24/2016 1:06 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks Zuil, but I can't work out how to drag select the beats.
I can't find anything in the little box that opens that I can drag or select.
It's showing various tempo markings with a sort of blank space to the right of it.
Must be me I suppose!

Andrew

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 8/24/2016 1:23 AM (GMT -6)

When in the Tempo Tool, select one beat in the staff. Then use the drop down menu to choose Set, and put the tempo there. Tempo must be selected first from the MIDI Menu.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Andrew Emmet
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 279

Posted 8/24/2016 1:50 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks Zuil,
Got it!

Andrew :)

Daniele Ghisi
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 59

Posted 8/31/2016 4:16 AM (GMT -6)

I've often used MIDI tempo to perfectly align MIDI tempi imported from other environments.
I don't seem to be able to do this any longer with Finale 25 (I'm trying the demo version).

I have a voice containing some MIDI tempo values. How can I EXACTLY see what they are, and then possibly modify them EXACTLY?
Metronome tool used to do this: I used to click on a measure, scroll forward or backward on the tempi list, and see/modify each one of them.
How am I supposed to do this now in Finale 25?
This is a huge deal for my workflow.

Thanks in advance,
Daniele

Daz
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723

Posted 8/31/2016 4:58 AM (GMT -6)

Hi Daniele

open your file.
Switch to Scroll View and and select the MIDI Tool
From the MIDI Tool menu, select "Edit Tempo"
Scroll to the section of interest
Double click on any staff
The upper portion of your document will diplay a tempo map/track
On the Left hand side is a scale showing the BPM. If there is no line visible, place you mouse over the scale, 'grab' it and move the scale up/down until you see the line
To actually edit/change a section, highlight an area (in the upper portion of the window)
Click on the MIDI Tool menu. You'll be able to "Set to", Scale, % Alter, limit etc.

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011, Finale 25 - Win7 64 bit

Daniele Ghisi
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 59

Posted 8/31/2016 5:08 AM (GMT -6)

Hi Daz, and thanks for helping me.
Via your suggestion I am now able to set the value I wish via "set to", but I don't seem to be able to INSPECT the existing tempo value.
How can I see PRECISELY the tempo value at any given point? The BPM graph is too coarse, I can't inspect anything. I'd really like to see the tempo (say 64.87) and then being able to slightly correct it (an I can indeed do this via "Set To", provided I have a way to inspect existing tempo...)

Any clue on how to do this?

Thanks again,
d

Daz
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723

Posted 8/31/2016 6:18 AM (GMT -6)

Hi Daniele

I'm very sorry, but I'm not able to see any way of seeing precisely the tempo at any given point.

I can offer one "kludge", however.
The scale to the left gives you an approximate.
Select a section and select "Set to" from the MIDI Tool menu
Enter a value which you feel is close.
If the line moves for that section, then the guess was incorrect.
If the line stays as it was, then the value you chose was correct
The line noticeably moves if there a 1bpm difference.

So...
Select a section
Select "Set to..."
observe the result
Edit->Undo
If the line did not move, you have the BPM for that section
If the line did move, take note of which direction and try the procedure again. Rinse and repeat until you have the exact tempo.

Clumsy... but doable.

Hopefully someone else here might have a more elegant suggestion.

Note that you can only enter a whole number. For example 123.5 will get rounded up to 124

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011, Finale 25 - Win7 64 bit

Daniele Ghisi
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 59

Posted 8/31/2016 7:22 AM (GMT -6)

Hi Daz, unfortunately this is not doable, I'm talking about decimal changes in the tempo, which I cannot even see graphically.
This completely breaks my workflow and makes me rethink the utility of Finale. Such a crucial feature used to be there, and for some reason is now missing.

In any case, thanks again for your help!
d

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 8/31/2016 9:14 AM (GMT -6)

Fortunately, 2014.5 still does this. open the file in 2014.5 and edit there.

I agree that the MIDI Tool is not as precise as the Tempo Tool. That is too bad, and an unfortunate setback. In the past, MakeMusic has restored features when enough users report the loss. I would start by reporting your findings to MakeMusic and see what happens.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Daz
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723

Posted 8/31/2016 1:53 PM (GMT -6)

Hi

Rather than reintroducing the tempo tool, I'd love to see the MIDI tool updated to be more useful.
The ability to draw in curves (tempo, Velocity, CC data) or at least point editing. ie A midi event (be it a tempo/time sig change, cc event etc) represented as a point which can be selected and manipulated by dragging or entering/modifying numeric values. It would be best if these points were visibly connected by lines.
A status line which reports the value of the line/point under the mouse cursor or currently selected.

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011, Finale 25 - Win7 64 bit

Daniele Ghisi
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 59

Posted 9/3/2016 12:46 PM (GMT -6)

+1 for Daz's suggestion.
It's extremely important for a professional tool to be able to read and set MIDI event values precisely. Tempo changes are actually representable by points and being able to select/manipulate/edit point precisely would be essential. (Again, it's a pity Finale has removed the only thing that made fine tuning of tempi, and hence perfect sync, possible.)

Patrick Rice
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 1999
Total Posts : 119

Posted 11/1/2016 11:18 PM (GMT -6)

The old Tempo Tool allowed me to make a percentage change to the tempo for a section of music RELATIVE to whatever the playback tempo was. This is critical in going from duple to sesquialtera in Renaissance music. Sure I can set a fixed tempo, say minim = 60 and set it for the triple section at minim = 90 then back to 60 for the next duple section. Before Fin 2014 I could set the percentages of change and then set the initial tempo on the fly. If I wanted it faster I could change one number and everything would change appropriately. Now what do I do? The help files say I can still change percentages through the midi tool, but I haven't been able to make it work. Any suggestions?
Pat

Patrick Rice
Transcriber - Engraver
www.pdreditions.com
So-so plugin developer
Windows XP Pro
Windows 7 Pro
Windows 10
Finale 2014.5, 2012, 2011, 2010 ... back to 3.1

Andrew Emmet
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 279

Posted 11/2/2016 7:41 AM (GMT -6)

Crazy that I have to go back to 2012 to view the exact tempo.

Andrew

Finale 25.1
Finale 2012b.r1
Notepad 2012

iMac 27" 10.12.1 3.2 GHz Intel Core i3
Memory 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3

iMac 27" 10.12.1 4 GHz Intel Core i7
16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 Retina

13" Macbook Pro. 10.12.1
Memory 4GB 2.4GHz Intel Core i5

15" Macbook Pro. Retina.
10.12.1 2.5GHz Intel Core i7
16GB 1600 Mhz DDR3

A Cappella Choir Director And Arranger.

goldrich
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 1999
Total Posts : 35

Posted 11/29/2016 2:36 PM (GMT -6)

IMO, tempo manipulation has always been inconvenient in Finale. At least with the MIDI tool, we get a visual representation of the tempo track, but our ability to inspect and adjust it is, to say the least, primitive.

As Daniele said, "Tempo changes are actually representable by points." It's very frustrating that, after all these decades, the folks at makemusic haven't yet given us a straightforward graphical editor that allows us to create, examine, and move those points to whatever degree of precision we need in both their magnitude and their placement.

-- Fred

Fred Goldrich
Finale 25

Post Edited (goldrich) : 11/29/2016 1:39:04 PM (GMT-6)

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