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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > WARNING: Multi Measure Rest problem in 2014.5? | Forum Quick Jump
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Simon Andrews
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 77
| Posted 6/6/2016 9:54 AM (GMT -6) |   | Dear Fellow Users,
I recently made a new set of parts for my Mozart Requiem edition using 2014.5. The scores from which I worked were updated to 2014.5 (via 2014) from an older version.
I don't know if that is relevant, or whether it is just a 2014.5 problem, because what surfaced during the rehearsals is that the Multi Measure Create tool included measures with notes in them.
I thought the players must have miscounted, but when it happened two or three times I stopped the rehearsal and checked their parts, and sure enough, in one case, what should have been a 22 bar multi measure rest followed by two bars of music was shown as a 24 bar multi measure rest. When I checked the part on my computer after the rehearsal, I selected the 24 bars rest, used the Break Multi measure Rest Tool, and sure enough, there were the measures, with notes in them, hidden within a multi measure rest.
I have wracked my brains, but can't think how this could be achieved by human error on my part. What am I missing? Has anyone else come across this?
I am now facing the somewhat tiresome task of going through every movement in every part, breaking every multi measure rest and checking. Tedious beyond belief and a serious waste of time. . . .
Simon Andrews
2014 and 2104.5
10.11.5 2.5GHz Core I5
10.11.2 27 iMac 4.0 GHz quad core i7
PS If there is a previous thread for this, the site's search engine couldn't find it...
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Simon Andrews
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 77
| Posted 6/6/2016 10:11 AM (GMT -6) | | | I didn't, thanks! But why is it necessary? I still don't understand how a measure with notes in it can be included in a multi measure rest. . . . To my knowledge, I have never had this problem before (and I have been using Finale since 1988) so I have never needed to go searching for the box you mentioned. | | Back to Top | |
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Simon Andrews
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 77
| Posted 6/6/2016 12:00 PM (GMT -6) | | Wiggy,
The score already existed, nothing was added to or changed in the parts with the problem (that I have discovered so far). Oh, well, I am glad that it seems it is not a 2014.5-wide problem... | | Back to Top | |
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God's servant
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 73
| Posted 6/6/2016 12:43 PM (GMT -6) | | | If you still have problems, contact finale tech support. the phone number available on their website | | Back to Top | |
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Skjalg
Accordion man
Date Joined Nov 2000
Total Posts : 927
| Posted 6/6/2016 1:13 PM (GMT -6) | | God's servant: You can see when forum posters have joined this forum. A senior forum member (15 years, 1000 posts) most likely knows his/her Finale and MM Support pretty well. These users mostly need other answers than those you would give to a newbie trying to find his/her way through the Finale labyrinths for the first time.
Skjalg Bjørstad, Norway
_____________________________________________
Finale 3.0.6 > 2014.5, Macbook Pro OS X El Capitan (10.10.3), 8 gB RAM, 750 gB, Garritan JABB, GPO full version, Garritan COMB, Komplete 8 (Kontakt 5 etc.); Akai MPK mini, PreSonus AudioBox USB, Logic Pro X A live recording here. | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 6/6/2016 9:03 PM (GMT -6) | | I just ran a test. I opened the default document (31 bars). I created a MM rest for the whole 31 bars. I have Update MM rests OFF. I went into scroll view and added a whole note. When I went back to Page View, there was the whole note. In one single measure. In other words, the MM rest was gone, with the whole note in its place, appearing as one measure. Quite strange. When I selected to update MM rests all was well. The same thing happened when I went to the part and did the MM rest. Entering a whole note in the score caused the same one measure with whole note in the part. Checking Update MM rests fixed that as well.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" Post Edited (Zuill) : 6/6/2016 9:06:03 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Christopher Smith
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2290
| Posted 6/6/2016 9:12 PM (GMT -6) | | Zuill said...
I just ran a test. I opened the default document (31 bars). I created a MM rest for the whole 31 bars. I have Update MM rests OFF. I went into scroll view and added a whole note. When I went back to Page View, there was the whole note. In one single measure. In other words, the MM rest was gone, with the whole note in its place, appearing as one measure. Quite strange. When I selected to update MM rests all was well. The same thing happened when I went to the part and did the MM rest. Entering a whole note in the score caused the same one measure with whole note in the part. Checking Update MM rests fixed that as well.
Zuill
Yup, that's how I've seen this "bug" (or "feature") appear as well. The added note(s) replace the MM rest, but only one measure. The rest are hidden. I can't imagine how any programmer would think this was proper functioning.
Christopher Smith
Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5
or
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13 inch, early 2015) 2.7 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8 GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 | | Back to Top | |
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Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
| Posted 6/6/2016 11:41 PM (GMT -6) | | BvdPress said...
On a related note, "Break Multimeasure Rests" in the Category Designer doesn't work either. To my knowledge, it has never worked. Maybe the issues are related?
Works fine for me...
woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.
If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 6/7/2016 1:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Certainly "Break Multimeasure Rests" works in a category (Tempo Marks, Rehearsal Marks, etc.).
I encounter results similar to Zuill's all the time in my work flow in adding cues. I turn Update Multimeasure Rests off because sometimes I widen or narrow a multimeasure rest and, if the option were set, changes to the score will trigger respacing of that rest, even if the changes were elsewhere. When adding cues, I want to see the part first with all its multimeasure rests so I can see where cues are needed. I then go to the score and add a cue. When I return to the part, the display is indeed often bizarre--one typically sees parts of the cue--but really it's just cosmetic. If I select the former multimeasure rest, right-click, and pick "Create multimeasure rest", then all is well. I have in fact performed "update multimeasure rest", but only where it's needed.
If Finale were to do this--update only where needed--there wouldn't be any need of an option to turn updating off, I don't think. In the meantime, if you do turn updating off, you need to learn to always update where you changed by reapplying "Create multimeasure rest" (no need to Break Multimeasure Rest first). Or else leave Update Multimeasure Rests set.
Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition ChartPost Edited (Motet) : 6/7/2016 1:59:47 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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BvdPress
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2001
Total Posts : 1006
| Posted 6/7/2016 6:07 AM (GMT -6) | | Motet said...
Certainly "Break Multimeasure Rests" works in a category (Tempo Marks, Rehearsal Marks, etc.).
Thousands of files of my own and thousands from others as well through many versions of Finale on several computers and it has never worked once for me. I just got used to making sure each and every measure before a rehearsal mark had "Break a Multimeasure Rest" checked under "Measure Attributes" because if not it never works. At least for me. Great if it works for others!! I just made the extra step, which takes no time really, part of the workflow.
No clue why, but that box is checked and it never breaks a multimeasure rest.
Attachment sample (random file someone sent me to work on with all notes cleared out). See measure 3-4 where there is an "A" rehearsal mark and then go to the parts. No break. The box is checked in Category Designer. Unless it is just me and my setup, for as long as I remember this simply does not work properly.
Bryan Doughty
BVD Press, Music Express, BrassWorks4, Timber Ridge Music,
Kiwi Press, Serendipity Press and Cimarron Music Press
bvdpress@gmail.com
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/Post Edited (BvdPress) : 6/7/2016 6:11:01 AM (GMT-5)
File Attachment :
MultiMeasure Rest.musx 252KB (application/octet-stream)This file has been downloaded 255 time(s). | | Back to Top | |
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RVS Lee
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 352
| Posted 6/7/2016 7:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Brian -
Just took a look at your file, and i notice that it has multiples of many categories, including 4 for rehearsal marks. The rehearsal "A" in question could have been taken from expression slot 14, or 578, or 579 - all three included in the topmost RM category. While the definitions for that category do indeed include breaking MM rests, in the positioning instructions for each of those slots 'use category defs' was UNCHECKED, as was "break MM rests."
I have a feeling that once upon a time you or one of your clients needed to make a local positioning exception and it got embedded/buried in the works. (Happens to me all the time!) | | Back to Top | |
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BvdPress
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2001
Total Posts : 1006
| Posted 6/7/2016 7:26 AM (GMT -6) | | RVS Lee,
Thanks, but I guess that leads to this question:
Is Finale behaving properly (as designed) or not?
Since we only have a few options (font, positioning and font/positioning) when moving an item into a new category, I would assume any item that is moved would take on all other characteristics of that category? With the box clearly checked, my expectation is it would simply work and break a multimeasure rest.
This leads me to not trust Finale far too often and thus a lot of extra manual work is needed. Many times it takes seconds, but I assume the seconds add up over time.
Take care,
Bryan
Bryan Doughty
BVD Press, Music Express, BrassWorks4, Timber Ridge Music,
Kiwi Press, Serendipity Press and Cimarron Music Press
bvdpress@gmail.com
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/ | | Back to Top | |
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RVS Lee
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 352
| Posted 6/7/2016 8:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Brian -
I can only speak from my own experience, and while I've used it professionally for 25 years, many others on this forum have a deeper feel for the program. That said, I believe the program does work correctly - I've never had a problem moving expressions from one category to another, I always get a popup warning that the move will affect positioning and shape, and after the move the expression in question does indeed assume the category defs of the new category.
I just tested by moving expression 957 from your 4th rehearsal category to the first, and after the move both 'use category fonts' and 'use category positioning' were checked.
If this were one of my charts, I'm sure that the problem would have resulted from losing track of the many similar/duplicate expressions and categories: which ones take their defs from the category (and what the defs are for that particular category) and which ones were created or changed to be exceptions...
All best,
Richard | | Back to Top | |
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