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Rick_F
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 4

Posted 9/10/2016 5:15 PM (GMT -6)

I'm new to Finale 2014.5. I've had a very old version... 2001 until recently. I searched for this question and found no results. Sorry if this has been asked before.

I have to enter duplets in a 6/8 or 9/8 time. Every time I enter 2 eighth notes in the space of 2 it shows up correctly in the measure but adds extra rests at the end of the measure. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for any help.

"Don't play the notes, play the meaning of the notes" – Pablo Casals

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 9/10/2016 5:28 PM (GMT -6)

Unless you just mistyped, you want two eighths in the space of three, not in the space of two, to get a duplet in compound meter. (In other words, in the space of 3 6/8 eighths.)

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 9/10/2016 5:31:33 PM (GMT-5)

Rick_F
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 4

Posted 9/10/2016 5:49 PM (GMT -6)

Oh duh! You're right. I wasn't thinking straight.

Thanks. Sure wish there was a way to set tuplet setting for a number of measures instead of having to do 'shift click' and define for every tuplet entry.

"Don't play the notes, play the meaning of the notes" – Pablo Casals

Flint
silly bear

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151

Posted 9/10/2016 5:51 PM (GMT -6)

Motet said...
Unless you just mistyped, you want two eighths in the space of three, not in the space of two, to get a duplet in compound meter. (In other words, in the space of 3 6/8 eighths.)

That would still be incorrect. If you want two notes in the space of three eights in a triple time, you should be using quarters, not eighths. Or you can simply use dotted eighths without making them tuplets.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 9/10/2016 6:02 PM (GMT -6)

2 8ths in place of 3 is the more common way, but I've seen 2 quarters in place of 3 8ths. I would stick with 2 8ths in place of 3 however.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

michelp
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 2232

Posted 9/10/2016 6:20 PM (GMT -6)

In Speedy in 6/8, after a dotted quarter note, if you try to enter a duplet of 2 quarter notes (using the numeric keypad), the second quarter note can apparently not be entered.
The Tuplet definition window made it possible (2 quarter notes in the space of 1 dotted quarter note).
No problem in Speedy with a tuplet of 2 eight notes.

Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 9/10/2016 7:22 PM (GMT -6)

Flint said...
If you want two notes in the space of three eights in a triple time, you should be using quarters, not eighths. Or you can simply use dotted eighths without making them tuplets.

Technically you're right, but as Zuill says, two eighths are much more common. Elaine Gould says, "The logic for this practice is that, firstly, that the number acts as a substitute for the duration dot. Secondly, when the beat remains the same, equivalent durations have identical notation in both simple- and compound-time metres...It is quite acceptable to use [this] notation when there are not tuplets more complicated than duplets or quadruplets."

michelp said...
In Speedy in 6/8, after a dotted quarter note, if you try to enter a duplet of 2 quarter notes (using the numeric keypad), the second quarter note can apparently not be entered.

You can type Ctrl-1 in Speedy and specify two quarters in the place of three eighths, and it will work (not that this is convenient!).

Rick_f said...
Sure wish there was a way to set tuplet setting for a number of measures instead of having to do 'shift click' and define for every tuplet entry.

If you are using Simple entry, enter the first eighth note, type Alt+9 (on the keypad), specify two eighths in the space of three, and click "save as default tuplet." From then on you can enter your first eighth and then simply press 9 (keypad). If you are entering a whole string of them, after doing the above, click the eighth note and the tuplet on the palette; then you need only enter pitches.

In Speedy entry, with CapsLock on, type 4 (for eighth note) and Ctrl-2 (for duplet) and you can then enter a string of pitches (providing you don't make a mistake and undo!).

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 9/10/2016 7:50:36 PM (GMT-5)

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 9/11/2016 8:11 AM (GMT -6)

To me, it makes sense to envisage the duplet as a bar (or beat) of 2/4 with the same pulse as the 6/8, and so use eighths, rather than quarters.

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Dr. Wiggy) : 9/11/2016 8:14:25 AM (GMT-5)

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 9/11/2016 12:24 PM (GMT -6)

I think that's Gould's "secondly." I actually think quarter notes could be confusing in certain situations, since it could clash with dotted quarters.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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Rick_F
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 4

Posted 9/11/2016 3:17 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks for all the replies.

Motet wrote: said...

If you are using Simple entry, enter the first eighth note, type Alt+9 (on the keypad), specify two eighths in the space of three, and click "save as default tuplet." From then on you can enter your first eighth and then simply press 9 (keypad). If you are entering a whole string of them, after doing the above, click the eighth note and the tuplet on the palette; then you need only enter pitches.

In Speedy entry, with CapsLock on, type 4 (for eighth note) and Ctrl-2 (for duplet) and you can then enter a string of pitches (providing you don't make a mistake and undo!).

This should help a bunch. Thanks again.

"Don't play the notes, play the meaning of the notes" – Pablo Casals

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