|
|
| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Chord Tool | Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
Eric
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 56
| Posted 4/13/2002 12:18 PM (GMT -6) |   |
Well I kind of asked this before, but (1) no one replied and (2) I want to add to it.
Anyway, I'm a first-year college student and when I type out analysis on Finale, I want to be able to have the chord tool do things it doesn't seem to want to.
First, like I asked in my first question, does Finale actually recognize Secondary Dominants? I know I can get the "/" in the chord, but Finale thinks of this as an alternative bass and won't playback correctly. Is there a way to get Finale to see a V7/V chord in Eb as an F Mm7 instead of a Bb7 with F in the bass?
Second, I'm being taught out of the 4th edition of the Kostka/Payne Tonal Harmony book. They use an "N" to analyze a Napoleon chord. I can't get Finale to leave the N alone, it wants to make it a iii chord or something.
Thanks,
Eric
P.S. I'm using Finale 2002b on PC.
| | Back to Top | |
|
Jon Delfin
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 783
| Posted 4/13/2002 1:53 PM (GMT -6) | |
On 4/13/2002 5:18:00 PM, Eric Rovtar wrote:
>Well I kind of asked this before, but (1) no one replied and (2) I want to add to it.
>
>Anyway, I'm a first-year college student and when I type out analysis on Finale, I want to be able to have the chord tool do things it doesn't seem to want to.
>
>First, like I asked in my first question, does Finale actually recognize Secondary Dominants? I know I can get the "/" in the chord, but Finale thinks of this as an alternative bass and won't playback correctly. Is there a way to get Finale to see a V7/V chord in Eb as an F Mm7 instead of a Bb7 with F in the bass?
>
>Second, I'm being taught out of the 4th edition of the Kostka/Payne Tonal Harmony book. They use an "N" to analyze a Napoleon chord. I can't get Finale to leave the N alone, it wants to make it a iii chord or something.
>
>Thanks,
>Eric
>
>P.S. I'm using Finale 2002b on PC.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't answer because I'm not sure what you're talking about. Seems to me a V7/V in Eb would be Bb7/Bb. What notation system makes this any kind of an F chord, let alone a Mm, whatever that is? And while I have a distant memory of a Neapolitan sixth, I haven't a clue what a Napoleon chord is.
Jon, awaiting enlightenment
| | Back to Top | |
|
Eric
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 56
| Posted 4/13/2002 7:36 PM (GMT -6) | |
Let me explain a V7/V chord really quickly. Let pick the key of C b/c it's easy. A V7/V chord would be a V7 chord of the 5th scale degree. In C, that would be a V7 of the key of G which is a D7 (D F# A C). This is quite different then Finale seeing it as a Bb7 chord with Bb in the bass.
Mm7 on the other hand, means a Major triad with a minor 7th.
Do you guys see the problem now?
Eric
| | Back to Top | |
|
Jim Coull
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 2723
| Posted 4/13/2002 8:08 PM (GMT -6) | |
Eric,
The chord tool really doesn't work well to enter complete analysis symbols, even though it will notate chords as Roman numerals. Your best bet is to use the lyrics tool to attach the analysis symbols to the bass notes. I have used this method for all of the stuff I write for my theory classes and it works quite well. The only catch is that you will need to create symbols for inversions with either the expression or articulation tool to add after you have typed in the basic analysis numbers.
While you can get the job done with a standard text font (as I did in the attached example), it is a bit easier if you have a Roman numeral analysis font. You can find several of these types of fonts by going to the music links section here at the Coda site.
Good luck.
Jim Coull
| | Back to Top | |
|
Jon Delfin
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 783
| Posted 4/14/2002 6:49 AM (GMT -6) | |
On 4/14/2002 12:36:00 AM, Eric Rovtar wrote:
>Let me explain a V7/V chord really quickly. Let pick the key of C b/c it's easy. A V7/V chord would be a V7 chord of the 5th scale degree. In C, that would be a V7 of the key of G which is a D7 (D F# A
>C). This is quite different then Finale seeing it as a Bb7 chord with Bb in the bass.
>
>Mm7 on the other hand, means a Major triad with a minor 7th.
Ah! In other words, V7/V and Mm7 are what the rest of us would call II7 and 7 (i.e., dominant chord). You've piqued my curiosity. What manner of New Theory (phrase coined from New Math, which was in fact new when they foisted it on me) is this? It's far beyond anything I've encountered.
| | Back to Top | |
|
Jim Coull
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 2723
| Posted 4/14/2002 7:19 AM (GMT -6) | |
Jon,
This is not new theory - it's been around since 1600 (give or take a few years) and is what is taught in most college level music theory courses. Figured bass notation - the "lead sheet" style of Bach's time - was combined with the use of Roman numerals by later day theorists to analyze music of the "masters." One could certainly debate the value of using this system as opposed to the one that you are familiar with, but I think I will leave that to others to hash out. ;-)
Jim Coull
| | Back to Top | |
|
TTBashore
Registered Member
 
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 148
| Posted 4/14/2002 9:15 AM (GMT -6) | |
Umm, Mm7? I've never encountered this. Why not just call it V7? Or if it's for another dominant chord you could label it in terms of where it's resolving like V7/IV. Mm7 seems unnecessarily confusing. "mM7" on the other hand is jazz notation for a minor triad with a major 7th.
For analysis I agree with Jim, use the lyric tool. For chord symbols to be read by a performer use the chord tool.
| | Back to Top | |
|
Jon Delfin
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1999
Total Posts : 783
| Posted 4/14/2002 9:23 AM (GMT -6) | | |
One more failing of the Vassar music department. The theory courses I took referred to such as temporary dominants, but even with the Roman numerals, it was II7, not V7/V. Maybe if I'd gone to Juilliard like I was supposed to....
| | Back to Top | |
|
Eric
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 56
| Posted 4/14/2002 11:28 AM (GMT -6) | |
We don't normally use "Mm7" as a label, but more as a description when you're talking to one another. Yes, V7 means the same thing: a major triad with a minor 7th. Anytime we see a "7" with out a prefix (i.e. M [major], O [diminished], or Ø [half diminished]) we're supposed to assume it's minor.
Eric
P.S. I really didn't expect this to turn into a theory discussion.
| | Back to Top | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Tuesday, December 19, 2023 6:42 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2023 |
|
|