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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Change in Forum Location | Forum Quick Jump
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Derrek
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347
| Posted 12/11/2016 12:09 PM (GMT -6) |   | When I Google Zendesk, I see a Customer Relations Management software company. My guess is that MM bought the product to track their support calls and that Zendesk then sold them on integrating the whole operation with their cool nifty forum add-on. Perhaps this fits in with MM's SmartMusic clientele, but it is really designed for the company's convenience at the (considerable) expense of the user community.
If MM is committed to Zendesk, for heaven's sake make the user interface more user friendly. I shouldn't have to open a dozen messages to discover which I've seen (several times) before. (The most recent post pulldown has to be pulled down every time I return to the TOC, meaning multiple clicks and drags just to find messages with updated comments.) And spamming my e-mail with update notifications is an intrusion: I don't break off dealing with e-mail to chase some MM squirrel through the Zendesk maze. What kind of idiot design the Zendesk user interface? Clearly no one who ever expected to use it frequently form teh user's side.
Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 12/11/2016 12:39 PM (GMT -6) | | I think the new forums were envisioned from the perspective of someone needing help--you post a question, then someone answers it you get email. What was not envisioned was a community of users providing the help. To accommodate them the software needs to remember which postings they've seen from visit to visit and to make it easy to see only what's new and to easily revisit a thread they've recently read and or posted in.
Then, as I just posted elsewhere, there's the question of attachments. Yes, one could post a link to something offsite, but the percentage of people who have such storage and the knowledge to do it is likely small. Plus, they're likely to delete the files once the discussion is over. I have posted hundreds of examples here over the years; I can't imagine maintaining that if they were in my own space.
A typical scenario here is someone has a mysterious problem, and the only way of getting to the bottom of it is for them to post their file. In the new forums that might go, "Huh? How do I do that? What's Dropbox? I have to sign up for that? Am I going to get spammed? OK, I created a Dropbox account, now what? OK, I uploaded it there, now what? OK, here's the link--oh, it doesn't work? Let me try again." I just don't see it working.
The forum lets you upload images. It shouldn't be hard to extend that to other attachments. But the navigation issues Derrek mentions are an equally big problem, more than just changing the size of the borders, as someone above promised.
Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition ChartPost Edited (Motet) : 12/11/2016 1:17:19 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 12/11/2016 3:52 PM (GMT -6) | | Seriously, I believe they are trying to run the whole thing into the ground. The serious users will be migrating to other forums, and what's left? The blind leading the blind.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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CraigP
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts : 313
| Posted 12/13/2016 11:26 PM (GMT -6) | | I have a dumb question.
If Finale didn't want to keep using the old forum, which has plenty of limitations of its own, why didn't they simply choose a modern software solution that is actually designed to serve and cultivate a user community? Don't they want to cultivate a user community? There are a bunch out there:
http://www.quertime.com/article/15-best-online-forum-platforms-software-free-and-paid/
And I agree the new forum is just strange. It doesn't feel like a forum or a trouble ticket system. What is it? Why does it even exist? I am having trouble understanding what anyone would ever use that software for.
This is like picking Finale if you need a MIDI editor. Yeah, I guess you can kinda make that work. But who would want to? As a person who often depends on the help of others here, it becomes a big problem if the new forum is too tedious for those users to hang around. | | Back to Top | |
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HaraldS
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 310
| Posted 12/14/2016 7:47 AM (GMT -6) | | CraigP said...
Don't they want to cultivate a user community?
Obviously no. Finale users aren't primarily recognized by MM as musicians who could help each other in a productive environment, but (according to the department's name) are recognized as customers who could have success.
CraigP said...
Why does it even exist?
Well, good question. It doesn't have the necessary features and thus is not a step forwards. It could be so easy, the Dorico and Notat.io forums rely on phpBB and work flawlessly. Instead, MM doesn't listen to the user's needs and a working composer's reality. In politics, we call that "post-factual" politics. Ironically, the german word "postfaktisch" was elected for "Word of the year 2016" just five days ago.
Harald
Finale 3.0-2014.5, german edition, Windows 7
mostly hardware synths/keys, Cubase 7 / trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany | | Back to Top | |
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 12/14/2016 12:28 PM (GMT -6) | | HaraldS said...
...the Dorico and Notat.io forums rely on phpBB and work flawlessly...
If it's the same version of phpBB that finaleforum.com uses, I wouldn't say flawlessly. There's apparently no way to see only what's new to you in a thread. It will show you which threads have new postings, but you then have to hunt for your place. For all the drawbacks of the dotNetBB forum software here, they got that part right.
On another note, someone reported in the Mac forum that MM phone support is going away in January. Can someone from MakeMusic confirm? I can't say that I've used it, but I worry about the situation of authorization breaking. If for some reason that happens (I have to recover my system, say), do I have to go through the Zendesk forums to straighten it out?
Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition ChartPost Edited (Motet) : 12/14/2016 11:58:19 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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Adam W.
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 54
| Posted 12/14/2016 3:56 PM (GMT -6) | | To speak to Ron's comment - We're refocusing on an improved online support experience and will be offering Finale support exclusively online beginning in the new year. The ultimate goal in making this change is to be able to offer faster turnaround times and to provide appropriate, prioritized responses based on the nature of the issue. Urgent issues like product authorization, crashing etc. are showstoppers and require immediate attention. Identifying these problems quickly via our online tools means that you get priority responses when your product isn't working like it should.
Of course, there are always going to be complex issues that can be better addressed via the phone or even a remote session. We'll be able to leverage those options as needed so that we can maintain efficiency and accuracy across the board. | | Back to Top | |
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Derrek
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347
| Posted 12/14/2016 5:50 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 12/14/2016 8:11 PM (GMT -6) | | Derrek said...Motet said...HaraldS said...
...the Dorico and Notat.io forums rely on phpBB and work flawlessly... If it's the same version of phpBB that finaleforum.com uses, I wouldn't say flawlessly. It's easy enough to see what the Dorico Forum offers without guessing or making assumptions:...
A sentence that starts with "If" is not making assumptions, but I registered there and looked. If there's a way to see only the new postings in a thread, I can't figure it out. I saw your name there, so if you know, please tell me.
It's perhaps not a deal-killer, but it's definitely a flaw.
Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart | | Back to Top | |
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 12/14/2016 11:04 PM (GMT -6) | | This is probably not the place to discuss this, but you click one of those, you get a list of topics with unread or new posts, right? Then, for each topic, you can either read the whole thing, or jump to the last posting. (If it's long enough, it's broken into pages, and you can go to a page.) But there's nothing to take you to the first unread post. Or am I missing something?
Here, you can click the icon in the "last seen" column.
Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 12/14/2016 11:56 PM (GMT -6) | | So, if there is no phone support, and the new forum moves slowly regarding official response, and the standard support approach doesn't work on weekends and takes over 24 hours to get the first response, and 24 hours between responses, I think we've got trouble with a Capital T.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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BvdPress
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2001
Total Posts : 1006
| Posted 12/15/2016 9:18 AM (GMT -6) | | Adam -
Just so I am clear, as I recomend Finale a lot and mention both the phone support and this forum as a serious positive, both the phone support and this forum will be axed beginning in 2017?
As a LONG time supporter of Finale and a person that is overly critical of the product with the sole goal of getting a better product, I would ask MakeMusic to reconsider what they are doing. If the goal is drive support away for the product, GOAL ACHIEVED! And very loud and clear. Basically the customers and the base do not matter one iota to MakeMusic.
With other viable options out there, Finale had a really good thing going here (mostly because of the loyal users) and via phone support. I concur with Brian on the Death of Finale.
Ugh...
Bryan Doughty
BVD Press, Music Express, BrassWorks4, Timber Ridge Music,
Kiwi Press, Serendipity Press and Cimarron Music Press
bvdpress@gmail.com
http://www.cimarronmusic.com/ | | Back to Top | |
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