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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Composing for orchestra | Forum Quick Jump
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David Kurkowski
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 7
| Posted 11/23/2014 10:36 PM (GMT -6) |   | I have a question for you who compose for orchestra or band.
When you are composing for non-C instruments, do you mentally transpose the sound you need to the key that that instrument plays?
I can do that, but slowly, like if I'm writing a clarinet part, I have to say, to produce concert -C, I need to write D.
It would be so much easier to write in Concert-C, then have Finale switch everything before publishing.
I know Mozart was smart enough to just write in the native key for each instrument, so was Bernstein, etc.
What do you do, composers? Should I just work through this till it comes natural?
Dave Kurkowski
Philadelphia | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 11/23/2014 10:45 PM (GMT -6) | | Until software that allowed entry in Concert Key and then rendering in Transposed Key, it saved a lot of work by writing in the Transposed Key from the offset. It was more of a necessity. Similar about typing on a typewriter. One couldn't go back and edit. Fixes needed to be made on the spot. Computers have simplified many things. Oh, and what about calculators?
My point is that there is rarely a necessity for hearing one sound and writing another, unless that is the preference. I prefer writing in Concert pitch.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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Peter Thomsen
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331
| Posted 11/24/2014 12:28 AM (GMT -6) | | David Kurkowski said...
…When you are composing for non-C instruments, do you mentally transpose the sound you need to the key that that instrument plays?
I can do that, but slowly, like if I'm writing a clarinet part, I have to say, to produce concert -C, I need to write D.
It would be so much easier to write in Concert-C, then have Finale switch everything before publishing…
You do know that Finale already has this option, right?
Document menu > Display in Concert Pitch
You can select “Display in Concert Pitch” while you are writing/entering notes in Finale, and then de-select “Display in Concert Pitch” before publishing.
Peter
Mac Finale, 2011c, 2012c & 2014c, Dolet 6.4 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.3, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM | | Back to Top | |
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David Kurkowski
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 7
| Posted 11/24/2014 8:23 AM (GMT -6) | | Thank you SO much. I was not aware of this option. Now my life just got easier. And, Michael, I will continue to work on my transposition skills. Luckily, I'm not the conductor, just the oboist.
Thank you, Finale friends.
Dave
PS I have a new song/video on Youtube, called Side by Side. Check out key words: side by side lower merion symphony | | Back to Top | |
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David Ward
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834
| Posted 11/24/2014 11:05 AM (GMT -6) | | I learnt long ago to transpose immediately when composing and also to read transposed scores fairly fluently. However, I discovered various pitfalls and mental blocks in transposition.
In about 1970 I was engaged to help hand-copy the parts for an arrangement for symphony orchestra to accompany Neil Sedaka at a concert in the Royal Festival Hall, London. I somehow developed a severe and repeating mental block against a part for alto sax, resulting in considerable amusement at rehearsal as the player made a flamboyant entry in quite the wrong key. It seems my brain decided to become completely confused by my copying a part from a concert pitch score of music which was in a style about which I knew nothing.
That apart, I have noticed from scores submitted to me from time to time for comment, that people who write in concert pitch are more likely to misjudge the tessitura of a part for a transposing instrument than are those who, from the start, write what the player sees.
David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward
Finale 2014c with Mac 10.9.5
Finale 2010b with Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools
Since 2001 have used F 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2014 | | Back to Top | |
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Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
| Posted 11/24/2014 11:28 AM (GMT -6) | |
David Ward said...
That apart, I have noticed from scores submitted to me from time to time for comment, that people who write in concert pitch are more likely to misjudge the tessitura of a part for a transposing instrument than are those who, from the start, write what the player sees. I have seen this many times and I agree with David.
In my own style of composition, I write for the instruments I'm using directly; I don't "write the music" and then apportion lines (I'm saying this ineloquently, unfortunately...), for me the choice of orchestration is as important a decision as the notes written.
As a performer who plays many instruments, I'm intimately aware of the weak notes, bad leaps, etc., and that knowledge informs my writing. I'm not necessarily advocating it for everyone, but I do believe that careful study of individual parts would definitely produce a greater understanding of technique/tessitura/playability/musical interest for many composers.
woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014 using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAMIf the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 11/24/2014 2:33 PM (GMT -6) | | Since I enter with a MIDI keyboard, I want to hear the sounding pitch of the instrument. If in Concert view, that matches what I am playing. If in transposed view, I hear the written pitch upon entry, then the transposed pitch upon playback, which is not what I want. If Finale had a native way to give me an option to hear the transposed pitch when entering the written one, then I might try working in written pitch view.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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