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OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 11/14/2016 11:33 PM (GMT -6)

I tried to find in the manual what these baseline shifts (arrows) mean:

I need th link to the User Manual or some quick explanation. Many thanks.

Finale 2014.5 • OS X: Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408

Posted 11/14/2016 11:42 PM (GMT -6)

From the manual:

Several tools provide four positioning triangles to the left of the score that allow you to vertically adjust the baseline for items in the adjacent staff. These triangles can be used to position lyrics, chords, and expressions. The leftmost triangle positions items for every staff in the score in all systems. The second triangle from the left positions items in the adjacent staff. The third triangle from the left positions items in the adjacent staff in the adjacent system only. The fourth triangle from the left specifies the vertical positioning for the next item entered.

Bill

Finale 2014.5 (all versions since 1.0)
Finally made the move from my trusty 2011c
Staff Paper and #1 Blackwing Pencil with eraser
OS 10.9.4 on one, 10.10.5 on another

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 11/14/2016 11:53 PM (GMT -6)

Many thanks.
It was a bit difficult to read, but I understand. How does Finale handle when measures consisting with lyrics are moved across the systems, are the positions cleared?

Finale 2014.5 • OS X: Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 11/15/2016 2:02 AM (GMT -6)

Sadly, the changes are linked to systems, not lyrics. So if you adjust system 5, and then respace with fewer measures per system, system 5 still has the adjustment.

Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

David Ward
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834

Posted 11/15/2016 2:46 AM (GMT -6)

Dr. Wiggy said...
Sadly, the changes are linked to systems, not lyrics. So if you adjust system 5, and then respace with fewer measures per system, system 5 still has the adjustment.

And what's more, if you clear 'everything' from a copy of a file (say a scene from an opera) delete everything except the first bar and then add x number of blank measures for entry of the next scene (or whatever) the lyric baseline shift changes seem still to be attached to systems with the same numbers as before. One of those Finale quirks that are more intriguing than seriously disabling.

David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2014d & 2014.5 with Mac 10.9.5 & 10.11.6
Finale 2010b with Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

Since 2001 have used F 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2014

“We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.” JFK

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 11/15/2016 5:45 AM (GMT -6)

So it means that if I respace everything by one system, all systems thereafter will have th previous system's baseline?

Finale 2014.5 • OS X: Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM

David Ward
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834

Posted 11/15/2016 6:42 AM (GMT -6)

No! (But see Bill's response above)

If you respace the lyric baseline on a particular stave in system 5 or system 43, then thereafter system 5 or system 43 will have that lyric baseline for that stave until you change the baseline, even if you insert 50 new measures and entirely different music is now on systems 5 and 43. That is if you move the second from the right triangle, which is the one I most often adjust, as it shifts the baseline for the system and stave on which you are working. You CAN shift the baseline for the entire piece with the leftmost triangle, as described by Bill above.

Since it's the second from the right triangle that I know most about and regularly use, I was pleased to see what Bill said above to remind myself of the function of the other triangles.

(Apologies for the confused multiple editing of this post. It IS potentially quite confusing - at least to me.)

Post Edited (David Ward) : 11/15/2016 6:12:11 AM (GMT-6)

Christopher Smith
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2290

Posted 11/15/2016 7:54 AM (GMT -6)

Dr. Wiggy said...
Sadly, the changes are linked to systems, not lyrics. So if you adjust system 5, and then respace with fewer measures per system, system 5 still has the adjustment.

This took me WAY too long to understand. I finally got it a couple of years ago, and now if I need to adjust lyrics on a per-system basis, I use Adjust Lyrics, select all the handles by dragging across them, and use the up and down arrows to nudge them. This is easy to reverse with the Clear key, and always stays associated with the original lyric.

Christopher Smith

Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 and V. 25
or
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13 inch, early 2015) 2.7 Ghz Intel Core i5, 8 GB RAM
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5 and V. 25

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 11/15/2016 11:18 AM (GMT -6)

That's a good strategy, Christopher, and sad that that's the best way to do it. It took me a long time to get accustomed to the workarounds we have to think up to use the Lyrics Tool and the difficulty in resetting the lyrics baselines.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 11/15/2016 12:02 PM (GMT -6)

That's one way, though if you reflow the measures, then you're left with some syllables at a different height from others in the new systems. You can clear it easy enough, but that's no less of a task than adjusting the system baseline again.

System indents and other margin settings also suffer a similar fate: if you join two system together, then the indent will be one system later than you want it. For this reason I do things in a pretty strict order: measure spacing first, then hiding staves. Then I see how many pages I've filled, and if I need to pull in or push out the layout to fit. Then stave spacing, then indents, then lyric baselines.

I think systems is an area ripe for Finale to revamp. It's a scandal that you can't join or split systems (without these consequences) unless you buy third-party plug-ins.

Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Ansgar Krause
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 416

Posted 11/15/2016 12:15 PM (GMT -6)

There is a plugin for baseline adjustments within TGTools.

Ansgar Krause

MacBook Pro 15", OSX 10.9.5 • Finale since 2.6.3
Quickeys, TGTools, Patterson Plugins ...

Fonts: http://ansgarkrause.com/fonts/Overview.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSHCCFDyNOs

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 11/15/2016 12:49 PM (GMT -6)

Ansgar Krause said...
There is a plugin for baseline adjustments within TGTools.

As with much in TG Tools, this is all key functionality that should be in the program, rather than requiring an additional payment.

Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

N. Grossingink
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991

Posted 11/15/2016 12:55 PM (GMT -6)

Ansgar Krause said...
There is a plugin for baseline adjustments within TGTools.

Ansgar, can you or anyone else confirm that this TG Tools function actually works? I tried it long ago and didn't get the expected results.

N.

OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work

Finale 2014.5, not used by my clients

(Finale v25 - not interested yet)

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

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