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Finale for Linux ?
13
Yes, nice idea ! - 50.0%
3
Maybe, could be interestin' ... - 11.5%
10
No, why ? - 38.5%

 
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korneel.bernolet
out of inspiration



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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 2:28 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi
 
i normally use finale and other software with windows (2000prof.), but wouldn't it a nice idea if there would be a linux version of finale too ?
 
grtzsmurf

 
Korneel Bernolet (korneelbernolet@hotmail.com)
- Finale 2003a ** Windows 2000 Prof. -

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Craig Keyes
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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 2:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The market for Finale Linux would be way too small to justify the development cost.
Besides, they can't even make it work on Macs.

BTW Do any major software companies support Linux (Adobe, Microsoft, Corel, etc.)?
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habibbijan
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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 2:52 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Drool...slobber....slurp.

Fantastic idea, and I would love to see it implemented. The only reason I currently use Windows is Finale. Once 2004 ships for the Mac, that reason is gone as well. I'm a big fan of Open Source Software, and even when I run Windows, I use OpenOffice as my office suite. I tinker around with Linux in my "spare" time, and my preferred distro is Mepis. I've found Linux to be infinitely more stable, secure, and versatile than Windows. However, certain tasks that are trivial in Windows can be downright frustrating in Linux. There IS a bit of a learning curve.

There IS also an open-source notation program that I know about called LilyPond. Admittedly, I've never bothered to try it since I already own Finale. I've read a bit about it and it seems to have a significantly higher learning curve than Finale (imagine that).

Unfortunately, there is not a huge demand for Finale on Linux, and in the end, it's the $$$ that count. Hopefully, things will change, but I'm not holding my breath.

Brian Bondari
www.habibbijan.com
"Writing music with theory in mind is like wearing underwear that's too tight. It's restricting!"

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Craig Keyes
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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 3:11 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Brian,

I'm am sorry to read of your Win XP woes. I had similar experiences with Win ME, but since I switched to XP (1½ years ago), my busy machine is running flawlessly. I really do wonder why in the computer world some users are plagued with problems while others have none even when using the same software/hardware configuration. I've seen it on the Finale board almost daily that a user's application or OS is trashing their work, while others like me go merrily along without seeing the same problems.

Just curious.
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korneel.bernolet
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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 3:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
CK said...
BTW Do any major software companies support Linux (Adobe, Microsoft, Corel, etc.)?
no, but there are countless -free- other apps for pdf's, graphics, ...
(Microsoft and Windows are close, so they won't have their products in Linux scool )
 
i was just wondering if there's interesting in "Fin4Lin"
 
grtz cool

 
Korneel Bernolet (korneelbernolet@hotmail.com)
- Finale 2003a ** Windows 2000 Prof. -

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habibbijan
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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 3:34 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
CK,

My experience with XP was touch-and-go. It worked pretty well for about 1.5 years, then started giving me problems beyond belief and refused to boot. After a clean format and re-installation, it happened again. After a lot of online research, I traced the problem to a known WinXP bug, for which there is no known solution yet. Maybe it will be fixed in Service Pack 2.

The kicker for me was that after XP refused to boot, I used Linux (on a separate partition) to retrieve my data. Funny that XP was toast, but Linux worked flawlessly. After this experience, I bought a Mac, and we all know the story about Finale 2004 and the Mac. "Sigh."

Brian Bondari
www.habibbijan.com
"Writing music with theory in mind is like wearing underwear that's too tight. It's restricting!"

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Hugh McKee
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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 7:14 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes
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Bill Reed
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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 7:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
> I traced the problem to a known WinXP bug,
 
Could you elaborate on that?  I've had no problems with any of the 20 or so PCs I've installed XP on.
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habibbijan
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  		   Posted 12/29/2003 8:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bill,

Without going into too much depth (after all, I'm trying to keep this relevant to the thread), I received many "Delayed Write Failed - All data has been lost" errors. This is discussed in the Microsoft knowledge base - Article 330174.

Here is Microsoft's brief description of the symptoms: "When you save or move documents or during general file-management activities in Windows XP, you may intermittently receive 'Delayed Write Failed' error messages." In other words, "if you use your computer" you may receive these errors.

"Intermittently receive...?" That is sugar-coated. What they don't tell you is that it will lay waste to your operating system. I could not even pop in the XP Pro CD and do a "Repair" over my existing installation. It had been destroyed. Without Linux on another partition, I could not have even backed up my latest Finale files.

There are many variables at work here. I've been putting together my own PCs for years. It could be my existing combination of hardware, but that makes me wonder why it worked well for over a year before these errors started occuring. I stand corrected, MS does offer a couple of ambiguous solutions, none of which are relevant to my case. One solution is to turn off the "Enable write caching on the disk" feature, which would degrade hard drive performance. No thanks. Why does Windows 2000 Pro work on my computer with write caching enabled if XP does not?

The bottom line is that I will not use an Operating System if it is not reliable on my computer. It is a slap in the face if I come home, ready to write some music, and my OS does not boot. Many people have not had problems, like our fellow forum member, CK. I was also one of those lucky people until recently. If Finale were ever released for Linux, I would buy it. Until then, I'll stick to writing music on my Mac.

Brian Bondari
www.habibbijan.com
"Writing music with theory in mind is like wearing underwear that's too tight. It's restricting!"

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chipzoller
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  		   Posted 1/4/2004 8:59 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I was trying to get Lillypond to run, and I suppose it did, however I was not interested in engraving via a damned command line. Take a look at this link and pay particular attention to the section where they bash Finale for making "too many mistakes."


http://lilypond.org/web/about/automated-engraving/

Regards,
 
 
 
Chip

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Éric Dussault
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  		   Posted 1/4/2004 10:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
http://lilypond.org/web/about/automated-engraving/

Very interesting indeed.
I think anyone interested in music typesetting would like to read thes articles. What they say about Finale is essentially that you have to tweak a lot of things to make it look professional, and I can't say that it's not true. But the input via command line should be a lot slower than what I use with the computer keyboard, so even if I spend a lot of time tweaking the music, it must still be faster than LilyPond. Finale bad default settings are especially bad for the beginners, but would you expect beginners to learn a command line based software when there is Finale and S******* doing it so much simpler?

Éric Dussault
Mac Finale 2003a (2004 someday soon!)
Mac OS 10.3.2

Message Edité (Éric Dussault) : 1/6/2004 9:52:31 PM GMT

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chipzoller
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  		   Posted 1/4/2004 10:59 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well I took a test drive of the software and while using the command line is an interesting approach, not much can be accomplished before at least having to go back and proof and/or correct small details.

Regards,
 
 
 
Chip

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Peter Thomsen
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  		   Posted 1/4/2004 1:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Finale has a Command Line plug-in
- in case you want to try typesetting music with a command line interface...

Note, however, that Finale's Command Line plug-in has a limitation with tuplets: You can only enter "against 2" tuplets, e. g. 3:2 triplets; 5:2 quintuplets; 7:2 septuplets. But not 2:3 duplets, or 5:3 quintuplets, or 3:5 triplets a. s. o.

Peter
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habibbijan
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  		   Posted 1/5/2004 12:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I considered attempting to learn Lilypond in more depth, but decided that I would rather invest that time in tackling aspects of Finale that I don't quite have under my belt yet, such as the Percussion Map. smilewinkgrin

Engraving via the command line in Lilypond sounds fun in an uber-geek way, but would be a painful waste of time for me. I imagine that Lilypond would produce great results for short exerpts. A full score could be a lifelong labor-of-love! Where's the MIDI support as well? What? No Mass-Edit tool? I can't live without a Mass-Edit tool! :p

I have spent some time with the command line in Finale, but I don't use it very often for the same reason that I don't use Lilypond: I actually have music to write and don't want to waste time with a command line.

If I want to fool around with a command line, I'll play with Linux.

Brian Bondari
www.habibbijan.com
"Writing music with theory in mind is like wearing underwear that's too tight. It's restricting!"

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jzucker
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  		   Posted 1/5/2004 12:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When Quark 6, Photoshop CS, Illustrator CS, Indesign CS, Finale 2004, Sonar 3 run on Linux and come with free upgrades from the Windows version I'll definitely switch to Linux...
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Ted Doerksen
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  		   Posted 1/6/2004 1:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can Finale run in Linux via WINE emulator? I am also curious about this.
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Pete Sawchuk
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  		   Posted 1/6/2004 1:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey all,

It's the 20th anniversary of GNU. Here's a link to an article/editorial by GNU's developer, Richard Stallman; note his feelings on the integration of free & non-free software. Interesting!

www.newsforge.com/software/04/01/05/1146229.shtml

Pete Sawchuk
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Finale 2003a in Mac OS 9.2.2
Otherwise, Mac OSX 10.3.2

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Dick Brodfuehrer
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  		   Posted 1/6/2004 3:44 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Stallman's article is interesting.  Perhaps most interesting is the fact that an advocate of freeing everyone from the "bondage" of proprietory software and it's "moral unacceptability" finds it appropriate and necessary to copyright his remarks on the subject. 


In fact, I not only find that interesting --- I find it hilarious!  lol

(Currently using: Finale 2003a, Windows 98-2e, TGTools 2.25, and Glenlivet when I can afford it.)
 
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
 

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habibbijan
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  		   Posted 1/7/2004 4:12 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>>>Can Finale run in Linux via WINE emulator? I am also curious about this.<<<

By WINE, I take it that you are referring to Wine Is Not an Emulator. :-)

The current answer is "No." However, a better answer is "Not yet." Some people have tried Finale 2001-2003 with WINE, but with varying amounts of success. Some have made it work, but have cited font and playback problems (funny, I've seen these problems in this forum). For more information, go here.

Dick,
I think Richard's copyrighted comments are funny too! Give him credit though, at least he had the courtesy to add this to the end: "Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article are permitted world wide without royalty provided this notice is preserved."

Brian Bondari
www.habibbijan.com
"Writing music with theory in mind is like wearing underwear that's too tight. It's restricting!"

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aay
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  		   Posted 1/27/2004 9:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Though this thread is a bit old, I'm glad to see that there is interest in using Finale under linux. I won't be upgrading Finale until it will run on Linux. This may sound a bit dogmatic, but it's simply the way it is. Every other application I need runs fine on linux and I have no intention of paying any more money to MS for buggy, closed, and insecure software. Until Finale will run on Linux, I'll be using Finale on an old Win 98 machine and alternate between this and my Debian Linux box via a kvm switch. I don't care if Linux support comes from Finale itself (probably unlikely at the present time), or through something like Wine, or Codeweavers Crossover Office (probably more likely). The aforementioned Lilypond is very nice, but for a more full featured compositional program for Linux (which actually uses the lilypond source code) I'd check out Rosegarden-4. I'd love to have Finale be able to run on Linux, but I have to consider other options. Rosegarden-4 may actually become a suitable replacment for Finale for me because of the current situation.
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Pete Sawchuk
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  		   Posted 1/27/2004 9:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
aay said...
Every other application I need runs fine on linux and I have no intention of paying any more money to MS for buggy, closed, and insecure software.


How about paying Apple for less buggy, closed & insecure software [& some nice hardware too]? ;-) Seriously, you can run Mac OS X, Unix, Linux &, if absolutely necessary, whatever flavor of Windows [via Virtual PC] side-by-side on one Mac.

Pete Sawchuk
PowerMac G4 Dual 867Mhz w/ 23" Apple Cinema Display
Finale 2003a in Mac OS 9.2.2
Otherwise, Mac OSX 10.3.2

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aay
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  		   Posted 1/27/2004 10:32 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Pete Sawchuk said...
How about paying Apple for less buggy, closed & insecure software [& some nice hardware too]? ;-) Seriously, you can run Mac OS X, Unix, Linux &, if absolutely necessary, whatever flavor of Windows [via Virtual PC] side-by-side on one Mac.


Not a bad idea except for the money issue. I don't have any Mac hardware now so that means I would have to purchase some and it's not exactly cheap. It's nice that Linux will already run fine on all my x86 hardware. Also I'd need to pay for Virtual PC (not to run Finale only to use Linux on Mac). I assume I'd also have to buy a license to run Finale on Mac. So for now I think I think I'll stick with Linux even though I have a lot more appreciation for Mac than Windows.
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Pete Sawchuk
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  		   Posted 1/27/2004 11:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
aay said...
Not a bad idea except for the money issue.


Funny how that creeps into one's thinking! shocked

aay said...
Also I'd need to pay for Virtual PC (not to run Finale only to use Linux on Mac).


Actually, I think there are a few Linux builds that work on Mac hardware—Yellow Dog, for one.

aay said...
I assume I'd also have to buy a license to run Finale on Mac


I believe there's some sort of cross-platform discount. Either that, or the purchase of Finale for an additional platform is discounted.

Pete Sawchuk
PowerMac G4 Dual 867Mhz w/ 23" Apple Cinema Display
Finale 2003a in Mac OS 9.2.2
Otherwise, Mac OSX 10.3.2

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