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bendgo
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 5

Posted 5/4/2016 2:10 PM (GMT -6)

Hi,

New Poster here. I've got some scores that I want professionally printed. I've set the pages to 9x12 and they look great, but I realize now that there is scaling/pixelating happening on the slurs, crescendos and slanted beams.

The PDFs look better than the proof. The attached files are screen captures of the PDF. I made the PDFs by way of cmd+P and saving as a Press Quality Adobe PDF. I wish there were a way to simply export as a PDF.

But when I look at the finale page itself the crescendos etc are also somewhat pixelated/scaled.

I've got a proof back from the printers and the crescendos look especially bad, like short expanding straight lines that turn into a sideways V.

I've performed from finale scores that are much bigger than 9x12 and the crescendos look great. Is there a setting I'm missing?

Thanks!

Bendgo

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Flint
silly bear

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151

Posted 5/4/2016 2:47 PM (GMT -6)

What DPI is the printer printing out at?

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

bendgo
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 5

Posted 5/4/2016 3:14 PM (GMT -6)

That's a good question, but this is being printed by a shop that specializes in high volume professional services. They reproduce art and create books and such.

I wonder if their resolution is, oddly, too good and captures the information too well. Still, the problem seems to be in the PDF as well (as shown above), but I've done Press Quality PDF!

Dave Lang
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 364

Posted 5/4/2016 3:28 PM (GMT -6)

Hi bendgo - what version of Finale are you using? When I print to pdf using 2014.5 on OSX I don't get the option of choosing what type of pdf is created. What exactly is the workflow you're using?

The screenshots don't help that much since they're at the res of the monitor.

There are some pretty expert Finale users here - if you post a copy of the Finale file and a copy of the pdf they'll probably be able to get to the bottom of things. If you don't want to post all the work, just post one page from each....

MacBook Pro Retina 15" (late 2013), OSX 10.11.2, Finale 2014.5

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 5/4/2016 3:36 PM (GMT -6)

What happens when you zoom in massively on your PDF? It's possible to see jagged edges on a screen display at 100% (if smoothing isn't on), but that doesn't mean the data in the PDF is jagged.

If you can zoom in to 1600% and still see a straight line or curve, then the problem is at the printer's pre-press end. If you do see jagged lines and pixels, then something is going very wrong in your PDF-making.

Usually, the vector information in a Finale PDF is "resolution-independent". You can print it 500 miles wide on a 6 million dot-per-inch printing device, and you wouldn't see any pixelation.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.4)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 5/4/2016 3:39:11 PM (GMT-5)

bendgo
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 5

Posted 5/4/2016 3:50 PM (GMT -6)

That sound right Wiggy.

wiggy said...
What happens when you zoom in massively on your PDF? It's possible to see jagged edges on a screen display at 100% (if smoothing isn't on), but that doesn't mean the data in the PDF is jagged.

If you can zoom in to 1600% and still see a straight line or curve, then the problem is at the printer's pre-press end. If you do see jagged lines and pixels, then something is going very wrong in your PDF-making.

How does one turn on or off smoothing? (Probably not a finale problem. Feel free to ignore if so.)

I've zoomed in enormously and see no scaling/pixelating as bad as the printer-proof in my PDF. But I do see some when at 100-200% Attached file is when zoomed in enormously.

I'll have to have words with the printer. I have yet to see a proof from my first bidder, but I am contented that this is probably a printer's problem.

I won't ask how to fix that unless somebody knows a super easy to explain solution, but that's probably for the printer to sort out.

Thank you!

Post Edited (bendgo) : 5/4/2016 4:01:08 PM (GMT-5)

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bendgo
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 5

Posted 5/4/2016 4:00 PM (GMT -6)

Dave Lang said...
what version of Finale are you using? When I print to pdf using 2014.5 on OSX I don't get the option of choosing what type of pdf is created. What exactly is the workflow you're using?

The screenshots don't help that much since they're at the res of the monitor.

There are some pretty expert Finale users here - if you post a copy of the Finale file and a copy of the pdf they'll probably be able to get to the bottom of things. If you don't want to post all the work, just post one page from each....

I'm using finale 2014.4 on mac OSX on this terminal. The computers are also loaded with Adobe Acrobat Pro (fully paid for by the university so un-nerfed) so when you choose print and save as PDF, I choose Adobe PDF, then there is another dialog box that pops up from Adobe that allows me to select my settings, I choose "Press Quality."

Good point about the screen shots, but the last one in my last reply is from a hugely blown up screen cap and the first are closer to actual size. The pixelating on my screen is worse on the small ones I originally posted.

If the printers can't correct it, I'll post my .musx and .pdfs and see what the consensus is.

Thanks for the help guys!

tisimst
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 18

Posted 5/7/2016 12:03 AM (GMT -6)

bendgo said...

Something funny is definitely going on. As a PDF, pixelation shouldn't be an issue unless Acrobat is converting all the score elements to rasterized graphics instead of leaving them as vector graphics. I wouldn't trust completely what you see on the monitor either, in terms of how things do or don't line up. Most PDF viewers aren't perfect that way with antialiasing.

Anyway, the point in getting at is that you should probably be doing something different at the export-to-PDF stage. I have a hard time believing that a professional printing house, who probably deal with PDF files on a daily basis, is messing up your file when they send it to the printer. Try doing the "normal" export method (i.e., NOT through Acrobat) and then print it out the first page on a laser printer from within any PDF viewer. There has to be a logical explanation for the pixelation you are seeing, most likely that there's some checkbox that is checked and you didn't realize it or something was misinterpreted, or something like that. Good luck!

Rebecca Oswald
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 438

Posted 5/7/2016 12:19 AM (GMT -6)

Have you tried Save as Postscript? For PDFs I always save Finale files as Postscript, open the PS file with Acrobat Distiller, immediately quit it as well as Mac Preview without hitting save, and the resulting PDFs are crisp and clear — no pixellation. Then I apply a quartz filter to convert the RGB PDFs to B&W.

Rebecca

MacBook Pro 2.3 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, OS 10.8.5;
Finale 2014d; Cubase Studio 4; GPO, JABB, C&MB; several EWQL libraries;
Korg 01w/fd, Roland A88, and a Baldwin Hamilton

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 5/7/2016 1:28 AM (GMT -6)

tisimst said...
I have a hard time believing that a professional printing house, who probably deal with PDF files on a daily basis, is messing up your file when they send it to the printer.

Having worked in publishing for many years, I am constantly amazed at the ways in which printers manage to get things wrong in pre-press. Never rule it out!

The other thing I Would recommend is to use Acrobat's Preflight feature to test the PDF. Choose a profile for press. If there are any low-resolution elements in your PDF, they will be flagged in the report.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.4)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

bendgo
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 5

Posted 5/11/2016 4:06 PM (GMT -6)

Thank you very much all.

It was the copy shop this time.

I had a proof from them and then I got another proof from a straight up publishing house. Hands down better product even without the High Resolution file. AND they didn't Mickey mouse about 12 x18 booklet paper. They just said, "12x18? No Problem." Copy shops max out at 11x17 apparently and don't want to accomodate.

I will certainly remember these tips for future reference about Postscript and the like. !!!

bendgo, DMA

Dave Lang
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 364

Posted 5/11/2016 5:04 PM (GMT -6)

thanks for the follow up post, bendgo

MacBook Pro Retina 15" (late 2013), OSX 10.11.4, Finale 2014.5

tisimst
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 18

Posted 5/12/2016 4:08 PM (GMT -6)

bendgo said...
It was the copy shop this time.

I stand corrected. So did you ever sort out what exactly caused the pixellation?

thomasmith
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 96

Posted 5/13/2016 3:09 PM (GMT -6)

FWIW I've experienced that poor resolution problem too. Acrobat Pro is great, and I use it for compiling music, text and image files into booklets and volumes, but a couple of weeks ago I realized that my Finale-generated-pdfs were being printed by an Acrobat Pro companion program, Adobe Acrobat Reader DC. I could print very nicely from Acrobat Pro OR plain ole Adobe Reader, but printing from AAR-DC rendered poor resolution. (I thought a dot matrix printer from my past was coming back to haunt me)

Once I realized that, I made sure to keep clear of printing from within that particular program.
Hope this helps somebody somewhere.

Thomas Smith
Guitarist, Composer/Arranger, Engraver
Finale 2014.5, (and every previous version since 2.0)
2009 Millay Colony for the Arts Composer Resident
24" iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 4 Gb RAM; OS 10.11.2
15" MacBook Pro, 2.8 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 4 Gb RAM
iPad running iOS 7
M-Audio Fast Track Pro Audio Interface, M-Audio Keystation 49e
www.thomasmithmusic.com
www.rhinesmithduo.com
www.milmontparkmusic.com

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 5/13/2016 4:22 PM (GMT -6)

thomasmith said...
Once I realized that, I made sure to keep clear of printing from within that particular program.
Hope this helps somebody somewhere.

I seem to remember that Acrobat Reader may have a preference or print setting of "Print as Image". I don't know if that's the issue.

I've also discovered that some lineart PDFs can appear halftoned if ColorSync is selected in print dialog options.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.4)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

MikeHalloran
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 217

Posted 5/14/2016 10:05 AM (GMT -6)

This s a Mac. Why fool with Acrobat? Using Preview in the Print menu to save a file as .pdf works quite well and would not cause the problem the OP is having.

I have Acrobat Pro and use it to combine, edit and reduce PDFs. It's essential to my work but I never use it to generate .pdf files on a Mac—it's unnecessary when Preview does it so well.

If there's a reason to have Acrobat Reader on a Mac since OS 10.6, I've not seen it.

Finale 2014.5, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07
2010 iMac i7, 20G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.11.4
MOTU Digital Performer 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.2

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