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Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/15/2015 6:04 PM (GMT -6)

Anyone else having a problem with the Split Measure plug-in crashing Finale 2014d?
It's happened with every file I've worked on.
Thanks.

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 2/15/2015 6:16 PM (GMT -6)

I just tried it. No problem here.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/15/2015 6:20 PM (GMT -6)

Aargh! Thanks Charles.

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

Peter Thomsen
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331

Posted 2/16/2015 12:22 AM (GMT -6)

Perotinus,

The cause could be a conflict between the plug-in and one of Finale’s automatic settings.

Is the option “Automatically Update Layout” selected or de-selected?
(Preferences > Edit > Automatic Settings > Automatic Update Layout)

Peter

Mac Finale, 2011c, 2012c & 2014d, Dolet 6.4 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 2/16/2015 2:37 AM (GMT -6)

I'd never tried that plug-in before (works). Bizarrely, it breaks the system at the split point and locks that system and the next. I suppose it was envisioned to accommodate very long measures that wouldn't fit, but of course there are many more uses for it than that.

It is of course possible to do "by hand," Perotinus. The plug-in combines about 4 steps into 1, but unless you have dozens to do, it's not a big deal.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 2/16/2015 1:40:53 AM (GMT-6)

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 2/16/2015 4:12 AM (GMT -6)

You can deselect 'Move second part of split measure to next system'. I'm curious if this setting has an effect on the crashing behaviour.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014d, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.10.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB

Amsterdam

Peter Thomsen
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331

Posted 2/16/2015 6:42 AM (GMT -6)

I could be wrong about this, but…

If I Recall Correctly, the crashing is a conflict between the plug-in and “Automatic Update Layout”.
Possibly the crashing occurs when
- 'Move second part of split measure to next system' is selected,
and
- the next system is on the next page so that the split goes across two pages.

Peter

Mac Finale, 2011c, 2012c & 2014d, Dolet 6.4 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/16/2015 8:47 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks, All, I'll try out these workarounds and see what happens.

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 2/16/2015 1:54 PM (GMT -6)

If you'd like help doing it by hand, let us know.

Duh - I didn't see "Move second part of split measure to next system", so withdraw my characterization of "bizarre".

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 2/16/2015 1:05:19 PM (GMT-6)

Charles Lawrence
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 3638

Posted 2/16/2015 4:32 PM (GMT -6)

Seems to me to be a ready made solution to the way many hymnals break a measure across a system break, probably for phrasing purposes.

"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

Cakewalk SONAR X3

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/16/2015 5:08 PM (GMT -6)

I believe the plugin was created to do what could be done manually in a few steps, so it saves a bit of work. Definitely better than the old way of creating a split point via the measure tool.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

~~Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3~~, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 2/16/2015 6:36 PM (GMT -6)

Not only does it split the measure where you want, but it changes the time signatures in both portions to display the same as the original measure, it gives you the option of an invisible or dashed barline, it moves the second portion of the measure to the next system (if this option is selected) and locks the systems, and last but not least, it deselects the second portion of the measure from measure numbering. Those are quite a few actions which the plugin does in one fell swoop. It only works if the measure to be divided is completely filled. If there is more than one layer used, those layers need to fill the measure, as well, otherwise the plugin will give an error message.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014d, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.10.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB

Amsterdam

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 2/16/2015 6:56 PM (GMT -6)

You can run it on an empty measure as well.

It will even split a syncopation into two notes with a tie.

No question the plug-in is a time-saver, but if it's crashing for Perotinus, he can do the things Vaughan enumerates one by one, and we can make a list for him if s/he needs it.

I've split measures for

mid-measure time- or key-signature change.
mid-measure dashed barline.
mid-measure double-bar before a pick-up to a new section.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 2/16/2015 5:59:00 PM (GMT-6)

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 2/16/2015 7:14 PM (GMT -6)

Personally, I don't ever uncheck "include in measure numbering" because of the terrible bug it causes when there are multiple regions and you've set the option to display defined measure numbers (I don't consider switching to displaying actual measure numbers a reasonable work-around). It's been years, so apparently MM has no interest in fixing this, but the bug is pretty serious. So I start a new region to avoid numbering the split. But one can still use the plug-in and undo that aspect.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/17/2015 9:41 AM (GMT -6)

Thank you all for this thorough information and advice. When I have time today I will try various experiments with the different options. I can split a measure manually for when I need it (I usually don't require all of the things the plug in does, such as renumbering measures). If anyone wanted to list the steps they would use to create it, that would be welcome and informative.

What I am beginning to wonder is whether there may be a corruption of some kind in the template file I am using. I re-made it several versions ago (2011?), but a recent thread indicated that reconstructing it from scratch might be a worthwhile last-ditch thing to try if other attempts don't work. Did not notice this behavior prior to 2014d, but even then it did an occasionally weird thing, like deleting staff styles from later measures.

More later.

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 2/17/2015 10:58 AM (GMT -6)

The list I made of what the plugin does is exactly what you'd need to do if you did it manually. For correct measure numbering continuity, you do need to exclude one of the parts from the numbering, although you do get the annoying bug Motet mentioned under the conditions he describes. I wouldn't call making new default templates a last-ditch thing! There's been a lot of talk about this through the years and many of us have discovered that templates taken from older versions are seldom 'clean'. In addition, older templates don't automatically take new Finale features into account (like consolidating rests between layers) and can get overlooked.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014d, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.10.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB

Amsterdam

Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/17/2015 10:58 AM (GMT -6)

Hi folks,
Well I tried my most frequently used template with and without Auto Update Layout and Auto Music spacing on, and with and without "move measure to next system." Each attempt resulted in a crash. I then restarted Finale.

I am attempting to split 6/8 measures into two of 3/8, this meant (when the plug-in worked) splitting the measure after beat 3 (despite the fact that the time sig considered each beat to be a dotted quarter note). Trying different "split after beat" options still resulted in crashes.

When I then opened the autosaved version of the document that caused the crash, no split measure -- but my smart shapes were either deleted (slurs and dashed slurs) or moved to subsequent measures (horizontal brackets)

On the Finale default file, the plug-in did work with no trouble, so it's likely a problem with a corrupt template file. In case anyone is curious I am uploading the file (a work in progress) begun from the problematic template if you should like to investigate it.

It's for a medieval piece (a Notre Dame conductus) with editorial conventions typical for transcribing thirteenth-century works, so there are lots of horizontal brackets, dashed slurs, no barlines, the time signature is a hidden 6/8, and there are independent key signatures in both parts, as well as a collection of staff styles needed for stuff like this.

I realize the likelihood of a corrupt template file makes needing to re-do the template a foregone conclusion, but in case anyone sees something worth commenting on, I am all ears.

Many thanks,

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

File Attachment :
Split-Measure-Test.musx 379KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 273 time(s).

Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/17/2015 11:02 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks, Vaughan, your reply crossed mine. OF course you are exactly right, and it looks like a refashioning of the template will be necessary, regardless. But just in case someone sees something else that's weird, you have my uploaded file to look at, should you choose to do so. All the advice here has been much appreciated.

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/17/2015 11:46 AM (GMT -6)

Which measure of 6/8 are you trying to split?

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/17/2015 12:27 PM (GMT -6)

Hi Zuill,
I tried it with several of measures, just to see if it would work. No go each time. I've cut out a bunch of the music in the file I uploaded to leave you with just the first three systems. There are several 3/8 measures in the file that I did manually (two of them have hidden-text block notices above them, e.g. at the end of the first system). The measure I experimented on before uploading the file was the last measure of the second system. Again, this was just a trial to see if it worked (and it didn't), as I wouldn't normally want to split that particular measure, but the point is that using the plug-in always results in a crash no matter where I apply it. Thanks for your inquiry.

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 2/17/2015 12:37 PM (GMT -6)

My guess would be that, rather than a corrupt template, you've uncovered a bug that manifests due to the unusual nature of your piece. I'll be curious if you or Zuill find anything.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/17/2015 12:47 PM (GMT -6)

The file did also cause a crash for me. I don't know the cause. However, the plugin is only needed if you have a visible time signature, and if you are showing barlines and a measure count. Since none of those conditions apply, it is much easier to highlight the measure in question, and change the meter to 3/8, selecting rebar.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/17/2015 1:18 PM (GMT -6)

When I uncheck Independent Key Signature for both staves, the plugin works fine. Why do you need Independent Key Signatures? If it is not essential, I would leave it unchecked. 2014 has a keyless signature, so maybe uncheck those and use that instead. Or, just leave it in C.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/17/2015 1:19 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks for your time and effort, Zuill. Certainly the inability to use the plug-in causes only a minor inconvenience. I typically only invoked it in the final stages of laying out system breaks. Maybe I'll eventually figure it out. Best wishes to you, your posts are always informative.
Cheers,

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

Perotinus
"The ends of the earth have seen it all!"

Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 199

Posted 2/17/2015 1:26 PM (GMT -6)

Aha!! your previous post crossed my previous post. I often need independent key sigs because medieval (and later) scribes treat their sigs differently for different voices (they often drop out and come back again, and I try to reflect this in my transcriptions). I wonder if I might I be able to use an independent KS for all staves but one and still be able to do what I need? Maybe I can turn them off and back on again without losing what I've done? I'll experiment. Thanks so much!

Perotinus

Finale 2014d,
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit

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