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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > The new notation program? | Forum Quick Jump
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Fred G. Unn
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 1268
| Posted 11/3/2016 7:27 PM (GMT -6) |   | From their own site:
"Dorico has many unique and innovative features not found in any other software, and presents a whole new way of working with music notation, but because it is brand new, it does not yet have every feature necessary for every kind of score. Dorico will receive a number of updates in the coming months that will be free to existing users, adding new functionality. Some of the functionality that is planned to be added in these updates includes*:
Chord symbols
Repeat ending (1st, 2nd time or volta) lines
Fingerings
Jazz articulations
Rhythm slashes
More flexible unpitched percussion notation
Improvements to playback and support for third-party virtual instruments"
Additionally, it can't do piano pedaling, staves are not independently adjustable other than the program's own collision avoidance feature, the documentation is minimal, and there's no demo. So ... if you don't need any of those things, go ahead and buy it! | | Back to Top | |
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 11/4/2016 11:10 AM (GMT -6) | | So, they've been at it about 4 years. As a very rough guess, let's say it's costing Steinberg $1M/year (more?). If they make $400 per copy sold, at this point they have to sell 10,000 copies to break even. ($400 may be high, since there would be a lot of cross-graders.) Each development year requires another 2,500 copies be sold until at some point paid upgrades kick in. Is the market big enough? I could be way off in my estimate of costs, of course.
Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition ChartPost Edited (Motet) : 11/4/2016 11:14:59 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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MikeHalloran
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 217
| Posted 11/4/2016 3:57 PM (GMT -6) | | Motet said...
So, they've been at it about 4 years. As a very rough guess, let's say it's costing Steinberg $1M/year (more?). If they make $400 per copy sold, at this point they have to sell 10,000 copies to break even. ($400 may be high, since there would be a lot of cross-graders.) Each development year requires another 2,500 copies be sold until at some point paid upgrades kick in. Is the market big enough? I could be way off in my estimate of costs, of course.
Steinberg is a wholly owned subsidiary of Yamaha. I'm pretty sure that they can afford the tab—as long as they see a future payoff.
I can understand the release before it's ready—try t generate enthusiasm, generate some positive cash flow and expand the Beta base.
Not with my money, of course. No...
Finale 25, 2014.5, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4 | | Back to Top | |
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MikeHalloran
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 217
| Posted 11/5/2016 9:09 AM (GMT -6) | | Dr. Wiggy said...
Can anyone tell me whether it requires a hardware dongle on a Mac? That's a big turn-off right there.
My understanding is that it uses the Steinberg eLicenser, a convoluted pain, IMO.
www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-do-i-activate-dorico-by-steinberg/
Finale 25.1, 2014.5, 2011c, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12.1
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4Post Edited (MikeHalloran) : 11/5/2016 2:47:17 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628
| Posted 11/5/2016 9:14 AM (GMT -6) | | | |
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MikeHalloran
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 217
| Posted 11/5/2016 10:39 AM (GMT -6) | |
Apparently so unless you use their dongle.
/japan.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=97395&start=100
I'm ok with iLok but multiple dongles? No thanks.
Finale 25.1, 2014.5, 2011c, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12.1
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4 | | Back to Top | |
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Vaughan
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
| Posted 11/5/2016 10:50 AM (GMT -6) | | You have a choice of the eLicenser on one machine or plugging in a hardware dongle to any machine where you have the software installed.
I find the new program very promising and it's already able to do a lot of things Finale has never been able to do without extensive workarounds or 'cheating'. I agree with stringtapper's assessment (BTW, the update coming out this month will have the ability to space staves manually, plus a number of other features and fixes), especially about setting up documents. Dorico's output is also very good, with good spacing, proper kerning of accidentals, good placement of dynamics and hairpins, etc. Many things are a lot easier than in other scoring programs, like entering a series of dotted quarters in 4/4 and not having to change note values to compensate for barlines. And it's sometimes handy to able to enter notes on the fly without time signatures and to apply these afterwards. And imagine being able to select two non-contiguous notes and type in p<f>p and not only have the dynamics and hairpins placed perfectly, but watch them adjust intelligently when time signatures, spacing, or anything else changes. about flexibility: there are already options for practically every contingency and the team is taking responses from users very seriously. Pretty amazing for version 1.0 and sure, it obviously still needs development, but it already surpasses the existing programs in a number of ways and I would think more in terms of months than in years before it surpasses them completely.
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB
Amsterdam | | Back to Top | |
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N. Grossingink
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991
| Posted 11/5/2016 12:39 PM (GMT -6) | | Vaughan, I've noticed your posts on the Dorico forum. It's obvious that you are really tearing into the program and will become a very competent early adopter. You deserve a lot of credit.
I continue to have mixed feelings about Dorico. I am dependent on a few features unique to Finale to produce work to my client's satisfaction. If Dorico will not adopt some of these features, I probably won't be interested at all.
As an example, Finale has a Measure Tool option called "Extra Space at Beginning/End of Measure". I use this feature extensively for a number of scenarios. Plus the ease with which articulations and expressions can be created, added and manipulated within a Finale file.
N.
OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5, not used by my clients
(Finale v25 - not interested yet)
TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire AlePost Edited (N. Grossingink) : 11/5/2016 1:03:17 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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MikeHalloran
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 217
| Posted 11/5/2016 2:56 PM (GMT -6) | | What it can do now isn't the issue. How nice it looks isn't important if it can't do the bread and butter stuff.
It does not have the functionality I need to knock out simple lead sheets for students or a praise band chart.
Finale 25.1, 2014.5, 2011c, SmartScore X Pro II, Encore 5.07, GPO 5
2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, Late 2013 MacBook Air, OS 10.12.1
MOTU Digital Performer 9.12, 9.02, Logic Pro X 10.2.4 | | Back to Top | |
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ttw
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 776
| Posted 11/5/2016 6:06 PM (GMT -6) | | I have seen an estimate that it costs about 2.5 times one's salary for a company to hire a worker. This includes the costs of medical insurance, worker's comp, Social Security, office help, office space, utilities, computers, parking space, etc. Some of these are not obvious; it costs to heat and cool and put furniture in, and office; this is part of doing business. Everyone uses office help, even if it's only getting one's checks delivered. Of course my estimates are based on 15 years ago when mandated spending on employees was lower. An employer can cut back on this overhead, but it might become harder to find employees.
Finale 2014.5, 25
GWI, GPO4, GPO5, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2
Windows 10 Pro HP Envy Desktop
Windows 10 Home HP Portable | | Back to Top | |
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Vaughan
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
| Posted 11/6/2016 7:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Dr. Wiggy said...Vaughan said...
Many things are a lot easier than in other scoring programs, like entering a series of dotted quarters in 4/4 and not having to change note values to compensate for barlines. SimpleEntry will do this, FWIW.
True, but one nice thing about Dorico is that, depending on how you set your notation options, it will also break the note values intelligently at the half-bar, etc.
I spend an inordinate amount of time tweaking things in Finale that the program should do itself without workarounds or resorting to third party plugins. The makers of Dorico are trying to create a program that understands what you're trying to do while giving you the flexibility to alter everything to specific needs or tastes. On the one hand, the excellent defaults of such a program will cater to users who have neither the desire nor the knowledge to concern themselves with the nitty-gritty of correct musical notation, and it will thereby not add to the numerous examples of really abominable engraving which abound nowadays. It will also, however, be flexible enough to cater to users for whom the look of the engraving is important and who need everything to be fully editable.
The fact that a basic function like chords is not yet available attests to the programmers' desire to do it as well as possible from the outset, which is no simple task. Sure, Finale has a chord function, but try using the chord suffix editor or changing the suffix font. This forum is full of complaints about the user-unfriendliness and antiquated UI of the chord tool.
I just set a piece using multiple time signatures and it was a breeze: no workarounds, no hiding barlines, no graphic elements, no independent time signatures with the resulting problems with smart shapes, perfect spacing automatically, etc. Pretty good for a fledgeling program. Just one example.
As I said, it's not ready for a lot of users, including myself, but I believe in the concept and the willingness of the programming team to take all suggestions and complaints seriously.
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Patterson's plugins, Tobias' plugins, full version, waiting for Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.12
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB
Amsterdam | | Back to Top | |
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