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OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/17/2016 9:28 AM (GMT -6)

Hello.
Before doing anything more complex and sensitive, I would like to discuss your opinion on running Finale v25 on OS X based machines.
The most important for me is the speed and stability (no rainbow or *disappear!)
Let us know your opinion in time to come.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Steve Gruver
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 76

Posted 8/17/2016 9:40 AM (GMT -6)

I just upgraded to v25. The speed and stability on my MacOS machine is fantastic.

The only downfall is that non 64-bit plug-ins (i.e. TGtools, JW, etc...) do not work.

-----
Steve Gruver

MacBook Pro 10.11.4
Edirol PCR-30 Midi Keyboard Controller
MacFin2014.5
Scarlett 18i8 Audio Interface

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 8/17/2016 9:47 AM (GMT -6)

Good news: Robert Patterson's plugins do work.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014.5, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.11.5
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/17/2016 9:59 AM (GMT -6)

Please, can you confirm your testing:
- OS X version
- Score size

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Vaughan
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984

Posted 8/17/2016 10:15 AM (GMT -6)

More good news: Finale 25's treatment of lyrics seems to be much improved. I just tried working on a medium-sized document with about 6500 frame assignments and quite a lot of lyrics and the lyrics window appears instantaneously, scrolling is quick, selecting and changing syllables is also instantaneous, whether from within the lyrics window or using Type Into Score. Will keep testing.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Robert Patterson plugins, waiting for Tobias' and Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.11.6
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/19/2016 2:34 AM (GMT -6)

Please, using Finale v25, open this file created in v25 and try typing random notes.
How about speed?
I get rainbows all the time.
It is basically impossible to work on large scores.
MakeMusic, any response?

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

File Attachment :
Untitled LARGE 25.musx 496KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 359 time(s).

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 8/19/2016 3:48 AM (GMT -6)

Scroll View seems to work fine. Things are also slightly better if you turn of Auto Update Layout and Music Spacing in Prefs.

Is that a brand new file from Maestro Default, or is it an old template? Might be worth building a file from scratch just to rule out any document 'cruft'.

"This is me helping."

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/19/2016 5:04 AM (GMT -6)

It is the Default provided by MakeMusic. I just started a new piece from the default.

So, Wiggy, you say it is lagging?

Unfortunately, the Auto Update Layout and Music Spacing should be kept on, as well work in Page View. It is like buying a brand new Mercedes with 260 horse-power and than driving in max 30 mph.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Daz
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723

Posted 8/19/2016 6:11 AM (GMT -6)

OCTO. said...
...It is like buying a brand new Mercedes with 260 horse-power and than driving in max 30 mph.

In Western Australia you get fined if you drive at that speed on most suburban roads, Mercedes or not

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/19/2016 7:11 AM (GMT -6)

Daz, I understand. Please focus on the subject.
I need more people to confirm this, if it is not true, than my computer is lagging. Which is strange, I have newest MBP 15', with the dedicated graphics.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Daz
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723

Posted 8/19/2016 8:07 AM (GMT -6)

Hi Octo

Have you seen this article?
It has some benchmarks. There is also this one

On the Windows side, I have noticed no real problems with performance. Mind you, I skipped Finale 2012, 2014 and 2014.5/

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit

Post Edited (Daz) : 8/19/2016 8:42:30 AM (GMT-5)

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/19/2016 8:19 AM (GMT -6)

Yes, I have seen. Therefore I started with this thread, since in vitro everything is to much abstract. We need in vivo testing.
I am tempted to use MuseScore. Really. I have created as heavy document in MuseScore 2 and the speed is perfect.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Mark Adler
MakeMusic, Inc.

Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 364

Posted 8/19/2016 11:37 AM (GMT -6)

Octo. has asked me to respond to this thread. While the file provided certainly provides a valid stress test, one that is very similar to files we have used in our own testing, if you are interested in gauging Finale v25 performance in real world situations, I would refer you to the independent reviews referenced by Daz.

Mark F. Adler
Notation Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/19/2016 11:55 AM (GMT -6)

Daz: so you don't use OS X and you don't use anything after 2011, but you are active on this thread. That is not so helpful.

Mark Adler said...
While the file provided certainly provides a valid stress test, one that is very similar to files we have used in our own testing,

Mark: what have your tests shown?

I have started editing an orchestral piece in v2014, and v25. I enter a note, and than rainbow, enter the next note and than rainbow.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 8/19/2016 11:58 AM (GMT -6)

Try editing in Scroll View with Automatic Update Layout turned off.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Daz
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723

Posted 8/19/2016 12:12 PM (GMT -6)

Hi Octo

OCTO. said...
Daz: so you don't use OS X and you don't use anything after 2011, but you are active on this thread. That is not so helpful.

I Use Finale 25. I opened the file that you uploaded, out of interest and had no problems with it. I'm playing with a file that has around 60 staves, and about 150 measures. The score is very busy and I have no issue entering notes via simple entry.

I do admit to not using the mac, but I though that it might be of interest to point out that there appear to be no speed issues with Windows.

I also thought that the articles that I pointed out might help you determine if it was something on your setup which is causing a problem.

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit

Mark Adler
MakeMusic, Inc.

Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 364

Posted 8/19/2016 12:42 PM (GMT -6)

Octo.,

I opened your score using Finale v25 on a Mac Mini running OS 10.11. When I enter notes in both speedy and simple entry, I do not ever see the spinning ball.
As has been pointed out, if you do your note entry in scroll view, you will see improvement in performance. If you insist on using page view, I would suggest putting fewer measures on each page, at least until you are done with note entry. Using your score, when I reduced the number of measures per system from 100 to 18, performance improved.

Mark F. Adler
Notation Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/19/2016 1:27 PM (GMT -6)

Thank you. I just hope that the new version will be robust and responsive.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Harpsi
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 495

Posted 8/20/2016 3:43 AM (GMT -6)

This is a long shot but could be useful to test. NB, I am on Windows.
The other day I happened to be working in page view with show current page only. In this way, the show active layer only command was very quick, something that normally (show multiple pages or scroll view) takes a long long time. How is your page view set? Current page or something else?

Finale 2014.5, Win 10, Korg M1, Oxygen 25

jpj
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 44

Posted 8/20/2016 7:16 AM (GMT -6)

Octo, opened your score and tried random notes in scroll and page view, all ok.
I used to have this problem with 2014.5 and yosemite and had to change to 2014d in order to work on a large opera score. El capitan and v25 seem much better although not exactly lightning fast!

jp

Mac OS 10.11.6
Finale v25

Michael Johnson
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 1317

Posted 8/20/2016 9:44 PM (GMT -6)

Hi Octo:
My steps on a mid 2012 MacBook Pro running 10.11.6 with 8 GB of RAM.

1. Launch Finale
2. open your score (no other files open)
3. Kept your formatting / remained in Page view Book Style: Row
4. Simple Entry, QWERTY entry no MIDI: enter D E D quarter notes
Viewing at 100% -- no lack and no spinning beachball / Spinning Pizza of Death / Rainbow
I then incremented down 10% via Cmd+0 to set view percentage and repeated step 4.
Results:
90% - no lag
80% - no lag
70% - spinning beachball of ~ .5 second
60% - spinning beachball of ~ .5 second
50% - spinning beachball of ~ .75 second
40% - spinning beachball of ~ 1 second
30% - spinning beachball of ~ 1.5 seconds
20% - spinning beachball of ~ 2 seconds

At what view percent do you see spinning beachball / Spinning Pizza of Death / Rainbow & unicorns?

Cheers,
Michael

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

David Ward
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834

Posted 8/21/2016 2:12 AM (GMT -6)

Michael, I'd be interested to know the effect of enlarged view percentages, such as one might use with a large portrait oriented monitor, on the Speedy Entry speed via QWERTY in v25. I routinely have page view at around 250%, scroll at all sorts of different %s.*

I alternate between page and scroll view when entering from my pencil sketches. I make frequent use of page as well as scroll view as I'm continually making changes, however definitive my pencil score might at first have seemed.

I probably won't download v25 before I've completed the first Finale draft of my current project (ETA October), but it's very useful to read the comments and reports in anticipation of this download.

*EDIT: Additional comment.

I should perhaps explain that although I would expect many full scores to be printed to B4, A3 or even B3, my Finale page set-up is always for A4. Since all these sizes have identical proportions, it is just a question of adjusting the % as required for the printing. Hence my on-screen page view's often being at 225–250%. I presume (but I'm not sure) that if my Finale page was set-up as A3 then the view % might be smaller for the same display result.

David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2014d & 2014.5 with Mac 10.9.5 & 10.11.6
Finale 2010b with Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

Since 2001 have used F 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2014

“We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.” JFK

Post Edited (David Ward) : 8/21/2016 5:00:04 AM (GMT-5)

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/21/2016 4:49 AM (GMT -6)

The spinning ball is found in an orchestral piece of mine opened in v25 and v2014.5 (not attached here). The spinning ball lasts about 5-10 sec for EACH note input.

In this experimental file (attached above) the spinning ball is not found, however, the lag is obvious. Except that it takes about 1-2 seconds to enter one single note, notes also flicker so that when you type a note all other notes are jumping around until they are put on place. The flickering is found also on my PC (but older).
I just want to confirm that I use a very powerful computer, with a dedicated graphical card (AMD) and i7 Mac book Pro, SSD, 16GB RAM.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

David Ward
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834

Posted 8/21/2016 5:28 AM (GMT -6)

OCTO, I just tried your huge score in 2014.5 (not what you asked for, I know) using Speedy entry and QWERTY and at 600% page view, looseleaf, current only.

I entered musically irrational figures involving quite a few notes of different values and pitches, accidentals, articulations &c on various staves on page one. Note entry was and remained at full speed, near instant, although exiting the speedy frame by keying '0' (zero) was noticeably slower than instant and was beginning to become frustrating. On the unlabelled bass clef stave immediately above Violin I, I entered a vocal line. Adding lyrics to this via Type in Score was VERY VERY slow indeed, caused the screen to go momentarily blank, and would very likely soon have become near-enough impossible.

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 8/21/2016 6:26 AM (GMT -6)

How about to enter with the Simple Entry as I do?

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

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