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MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > copy pasting chord changes to drums and percussion staves  Forum Quick Jump
 
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marsavis
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  		   Posted 12/20/2016 4:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can anyone tell me why Finale deems it wise to transpose the chord changes a minor third lower when copy pasting the chords from the piano part to any percussion staff??
thanks for your help!

Sebastien Michaud
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http://www.paiens.com
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Zuill
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  		   Posted 12/20/2016 8:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Since I don't get that behavior, I figure there might be more info we need. Seeing a sample file would be a start.

Zuill

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Jetcopy
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  		   Posted 12/20/2016 9:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill, try it again but make your test file in Eb major. When I did that, the perc. chords were a minor 3rd off.

I've never had this problem because I've never had the need to put chord symbols on a drum part.

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Zuill
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 1:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Okay. So just transpose them after the fact. The posted sample looked to be in C, so I would not have thought of trying Eb.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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marsavis
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 10:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks guys, I guess its a bug that they should be aware of....I guess I'll have to transpose it back up after I extract...you know some drummers, especially in jazz, like to see the chord changes :)
SOME drummer are musicians too ;P

Sebastien Michaud
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Compositeur/Professeur
http://www.sebastination.ca
http://www.paiens.com
http://www.laviree.com

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Derrek
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 10:44 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There is, of course, a difference in changing the key signature and transposing. While changing the key sig may transpose chords along with everything else, just transposing will not. One must go to the Utilities > Change option to transpose the chords. But that's not so great a burden.

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Fred G. Unn
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 10:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
marsavis said...
I guess I'll have to transpose it back up after I extract

Why after you extract? Just use Utilities/Change/Chords/Transpose and do the whole staff in one click.

EDIT: Oops, cross-post, Derrek beat me to it.
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Zuill
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 10:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I believe the nature of the percussion notation is almost as if it is in an independent key signature. C, in this case, no doubt. Probably more of a programming oversight as opposed to a bug. You should probably report this as MakeMusic is gradually fixing these kind of shortcomings and your report will be heard (if not taken seriously). Hopefully it will get fixed. They seem to be cranking out fixes more regularly than in years past. This might be due to the higher altitude in which the programmers reside now (Boulder, CO.).

Zuill

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Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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marsavis
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 11:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fred G. Unn said...
Why after you extract? Just use Utilities/Change/Chords/Transpose and do the whole staff in one click.


Thats a trick I didn't know about and thanks for sharing it but like Zuil said, since

Zuill said...
the nature of the percussion notation is almost as if it is in an independent key signature. C,


when I transpose it down a fourth or up a fifth (sorry I was tired yesterday and saw a minor third down lol)
whether I choose ''diatonic'' or chromatic, it misses certain alterations :/

I've included an image of that and also a .mus file for anyone who as time to try and find a work around

thanks guys

p.s. how would one go about to tell the programmers about this?

Sebastien Michaud
Multi-instrumentiste/
Compositeur/Professeur
http://www.sebastination.ca
http://www.paiens.com
http://www.laviree.com


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Zuill
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 11:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Looks like the minor key presents more problems. I would definitely report this. You'll have to go through and proofread the result, fixing those that are askew.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Zuill
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 11:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Try Up a Second Diatonically, then up a Perfect 4th Chromatically.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
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Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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marsavis
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 11:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
YES that works, thanks Zuil!!

Sebastien Michaud
Multi-instrumentiste/
Compositeur/Professeur
http://www.sebastination.ca
http://www.paiens.com
http://www.laviree.com

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CraigP
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 3:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
marsavis said...

when I transpose it down a fourth or up a fifth (sorry I was tired yesterday and saw a minor third down lol)
whether I choose ''diatonic'' or chromatic, it misses certain alterations :/

Yes, this is something I have trying to point out to anybody who will listen. Chromatic transposition isn't suitable for most harmonizing. Diatonic can get a little closer, but the problem is that is it "diatonic" only with respect to the extant key signature. That is fine if you are harmonizing "Mary Had a Little Lamb" or "The Itsy, Bitsy Spider". But for music with more harmonic content than that, diatonic transposition is almost more trouble than it is worth. You have to go back and fix more than half of the notes in some cases.

What would be a huge step forward, and not particularly difficult as I see it, would be a mode of "diatonic transposition" that takes into account any chord symbols that have been entered into the score. In other words, "diatonic with respect to the most recently specified chord." For most common chords, we can easily identify a pretty good scale. For example min7 = Dorian scale. dom7 = Mixolydian scale. 7(#11) = Lydian, and so on. If the diatonic transposition would use these chord-related scales instead of the key signature, I bet we'd only need to adjust 10% of the notes or fewer if we are doing any "regular" harmonizing (drop 2 e.g.).
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Derrek
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  		   Posted 12/21/2016 6:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Remember that non-pitched percussion staves are designed not to transpose (for obvious reasons) when keys change. This could well affect chords associated with the stave(s).

Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

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