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chipzoller
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  		   Posted 5/25/2003 6:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Is there any way that Finale 2003 or some other co-op of/by Finale can open .PDF files with music inside them? Our library has several music CD-ROMs that have much music in .PDF format and I would like to open it in Finale 2003 and work with it.

I know Sibelius 2 offers something like this (with another program that works with Sibleius 2) and was wondering if Finale 2003 would do this?

thanks,



chip
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TechSupport
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  		   Posted 5/26/2003 4:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The process you'd use for opening the files in Sibelius is the same as what you'd need to do to get them into Finale. You have to convert the PDF files into a .tif or .bmp format and then use the scanning feature in Finale (File menu >> SmartScore Lite) or another program such as Sharp Eye to recognize the graphic files. You can find shareware software that will convert the PDF's to .bmps or .tifs.

Tyler
Coda Tech

Note: These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly via email at winsupport@makemusic.com or macsupport@makemusic.com or call 952-937-9703.
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chipzoller
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  		   Posted 5/26/2003 5:52 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've tried the program in Finale as well as SharpEye with .tiff and .bmp and it still won't import it. What else can I do?


chip
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TechSupport
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  		   Posted 5/26/2003 7:51 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Check the properties of the tif and bmp files. Right click them and choose properties. How large are they? We'd expect them to be between 150KB and 800KB. Make sure the files are black and white and not compressed. If given a choice, make the resolution 300dpi. If all else fails, send the files to winsupport so we can take a look at them.

Tyler
Coda Tech

Note: These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly via email at winsupport@makemusic.com or macsupport@makemusic.com or call 952-937-9703.
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chipzoller
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  		   Posted 5/26/2003 10:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well I saved the pic as a .bmp and there is no compression and the file size is below 800 KB (when I save the .tiff the size is over 15 MB!). I took the .pdf files from the CD Sheet Music CDs (http://www.cdsheetmusic.com/) and extracted the images (from Acrobat) as .tiff and then converted to .bmp. Nothing seems to work! I guess I need to print them out and then scan them in, but it would be a lot of work...I would hope that I could just read the images right into Finale 2003.


thanks for the help,



chip
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Mike Dallwitz
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  		   Posted 5/26/2003 4:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
> I saved the pic as a .bmp and there is no compression and the file size is
> below 800 KB (when I save the .tiff the size is over 15 MB!).

These file sizes indicate that something strange is happening in the conversion process. Other things being equal, uncompressed TIFF and BMP files should be about the same size. Possible reasons for the difference are number of pixels (resolution), and whether the images are black-and-white, greyscale, paletted colour, or true colour. You need to be aware of, and be able to control, what your conversion program is doing. SharpEye can open only uncompressed, black-and-white (not greyscale) BMP's or TIFF's.

You might find it helpful to read 'An Introduction to Computer Images' at
http://delta-intkey.com/www/images.htm

Mike Dallwitz
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TechSupport
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  		   Posted 5/26/2003 5:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike is right, the large sizes (and differences between them) indicate that something isn't normal with the files. If you still have questions, go ahead and e-mail winsupport one or two of your tif/bmp files.

Tyler
Coda Tech

Note: These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly via email at winsupport@makemusic.com or macsupport@makemusic.com or call 952-937-9703.
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chipzoller
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  		   Posted 5/27/2003 3:34 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ahhh! Success!

I figured what I was doing wrong. I needed to save the .tiff with no compression (which I had done before) and manually put the colour space in monochrome.

My apologies for my ignorance! I am not new to image files.

Thank you Tyler and Mike for your help. I really appreciate it (and sorry for wasting your time!).



Chip Zoller
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Robert Meyers
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  		   Posted 5/27/2003 3:37 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Chip....

I went through this about a month ago. Although no great solution emerged, there is some good discussion in the thread. Go to 4/30/03 "Converting .pdf files to .mus files".

The manual tells you how to convert .mus to .pdf using the Distiller in Adobe Acrobat. But there is no easy way to do it the reverse way. As someone else says in the thread above: "Bummer". There is a program someone recommended, however, that apparently does a good job of scanning.

Bob M.
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chipzoller
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  		   Posted 5/27/2003 7:00 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Bob,

Well the way that I did it is took the full version of Adobe Acrobat 5 and load the .pdf file up. You can then go (assuming the document doesn't have encryption inhibiting the extraction of content) to the File menu and say "Export >> Extract Image as..." and you have 3 choices. Choose TIFF (.tif) and set the compression, resolution, and color scale and it should be good. I have tried this on several .pdf files and then use SmartScore Lite and add the images and begin recognition. It works pretty good! It is not expected that OCR or comparable technology is perfect but it sure beats manually entering it!

I only had to make few corrections to get the music back to the original state.

thanks for your reply!



Chip
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PetersSongs
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  		   Posted 6/18/2003 9:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On 5/27/2003 12:00:00 PM, Chip Zoller wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>Well the way that I did it is
>took the full version of Adobe
>Acrobat 5 and load the .pdf
>file up. You can then go
>(assuming the document doesn't
>have encryption inhibiting the
>extraction of content) to the
>File menu and say "Export >>
>Extract Image as..." and you
>have 3 choices. Choose TIFF
>(.tif) and set the
>compression, resolution, and
>color scale and it should be
>good. I have tried this on
>several .pdf files and then
>use SmartScore Lite and add
>the images and begin
>recognition. It works pretty
>good! It is not expected that
>OCR or comparable technology
>is perfect but it sure beats
>manually entering it!
>
>I only had to make few
>corrections to get the music
>back to the original state.
>
>thanks for your reply!
>
>
>
>Chip


Perhaps the future could be, to open .pdf files directly into Finale - I think someone would actually take the market with that...! ;-)

Anon
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chipzoller
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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 413
  		   Posted 7/12/2003 10:13 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That is a possibility however there would be technical issues when one comes in contact with a .pdf file that is encrypted against content extraction or modification. Making this type of .pdf open directly in Finale would, I'm sure, violate Adobe Acrobat policy. This would work if the .pdf doesn't contain encryption. Currently, you have to have the full version of Adobe Acrobat (not the free reader) to extract content from Acrobat files (and this is impossible if the content extraction is disallowed).


Regards,



Chip
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