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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Instrument range for Trumpets? | Forum Quick Jump
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Spideriffic
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 146
| Posted 8/20/2013 10:36 PM (GMT -6) |   | I'd say the trumpet ranges are reasonable. There are many factors that affect range, notably how much time is being spent practicing. I have four hundred elementary and junior high school students that I teach weekly (with the aid of my teaching assistants). I often write arrangements for them. I teach in private schools, and instruction time for most students is 30 or 40 minutes weekly at best. Despite my pleading for more, my typical student practices at home 2 or 3 times per week for 20 minutes. Add that up and you don't achieve great trumpet chops. My better trumpet beginners (usually 9 years old) play a "decent" third space C on a Bb trumpet at the end of their first year of instruction. I wouldn't write that note in an arrangement until I'm writing for kids that have played for a couple of years. My better intermediate students (12 years old, playing for 3 or 4 years) can play an E or F. My goal in writing for these kids is giving them something that they won't struggle with and can play with confidence in a performance. I write above a D sparingly if at all. That's not to say that I don't try to challenge my kids with more difficult things, but I won't take unnecessary risks in front of an audience.
Having said all that, I know that my own kids went to public school, played in band every day, and achieved some pretty good chops despite zero home practice. Most public school students can play rings around my students because they just play their horns more often. When I was ten years old, I played the trumpet. I could play a big fat G on top of the staff. I'm not bragging, I just was a band nerd before there was any internet to distract me. Nothing better to do, so I practiced.
Finale 2010b, Dell PC w 4GB ram, Windows 7 | | Back to Top | |
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Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
| Posted 8/21/2013 10:21 AM (GMT -6) | | That low C is still a rarity in the real world, Jim. Not every person has $10,000+ to drop on three extra notes that only appear in works written within the past 30ish years.
woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM
If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read | | Back to Top | |
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Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
| Posted 8/21/2013 10:27 AM (GMT -6) | | *chuckle* In my world, most orchestras play strictly dead music, unless forced/paid extra.
woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM
If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read | | Back to Top | |
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jim dukey
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1082
| Posted 8/21/2013 10:28 AM (GMT -6) | | That's funny! In MY World, it's the Standard.
You're welcome to not use it, but you can't play Bass Clarinet in a Professional Orchestra without it.
Some go so far as to have Both Kinds of Bass Cl.
Petroushka has Low D, it's a little over 30, same with Prok, many others!
Even Tchaik 6th has Low D.
Dead Music? Not when WE Play it!
"Clarinet to Co-Clarinet - Pull Out, Pull Out!!!!!!!!"
Molecular Computer, Powered by Fusion in a Jar. Finale 3000, Wireless ESP Module, No Physical Interface, Printed Parts Manifest by The Universe,
SOOOO Boring! Now Everybody is Friggin' Mozart.Post Edited (jim dukey) : 8/21/2013 10:32:07 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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James Lund
SmartMusic Technical Product Manager
Date Joined Aug 2004
Total Posts : 128
| Posted 8/29/2013 1:03 PM (GMT -6) | | KennethKen,
"It's almost like MM didn't consult a professional teacher of the particular instrument before creating these ranges."
I know it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but they used both instrumentation reference texts and confirmed each instrument with professional performers and educators. I was one of several trumpet players consulted on the trumpet family ranges, and each of us had slightly different opinions as to what "Beginner," "Intermediate," etc. really means. So, reasonable folks will disagree, but I agree with everyone here that it'd be nice to have it easily-editable to your preference.
For Wiggy's original question, it'd be pretty unlikely for a 10-year-old playing for less than a year to be able to play above the staff without regular guided practice. It is doable if you have that, however. The extreme range for trumpet does have notes in the classical canon going up to concert F6 (not just jazz) and the player presented with that kind of part will switch to piccolo on their own. Although, David Maslanka's 4th symphony has E6 in the principal trumpet part on the Bb mezzo trumpet as well as picc parts - he wanted the color that playing in that register gives. I told him I hated him for it, and he took it for a joke. My vision was swimming by the end of that piece.
James Lund
SmartMusic Technical Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.
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KennethKen
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2570
| Posted 8/30/2013 7:37 PM (GMT -6) | |
James Lund said...
..., and each of us had slightly different opinions as to what "Beginner," "Intermediate," etc. really means. So, reasonable folks will disagree,...
Part of the problem is that the category of Intermediate or Advanced player is not clear.
Is Finale trying to show the difference between an intermediate and advanced high school player, an intermediate and advanced middle schooler or across the entire career spectrum i.e., beginner<3 years playing, intermediate=3-7 years playing with some private training, advanced>7 years with private training?
A more customizable, 2 or 3-tier range checker at the document level would be great. So a user could first categorize a file as, say, a piece for high school band and then further set the range display to intermediate or advanced.
As it stands now Finale shows middle C as a note that is out of range of "an advanced tuba player" (this is the laughable data that I mentioned)  ! This may be true for an advance middle school tuba player but, if trying to advise a Finale user on the wider spectrum of expected tuba players' proficiency, this does not jive with my experience, many audition all-state lists or the etudes that even collegiate freshmen use. For example, the Vaughan Williams tuba concerto, cited as audition repertoire on many undergraduate audition lists gets up to the "out-of-range middle" C by the 12th note of the piece. The Gregson Concerto, appearing on many high school festival/all-state lists, is up there by the 3rd line of page one. And these pieces are consider standard fare. They would actually be considered too easy for some of the more intense competitions so showing them as out-of-range is very misleading when compared to industry expectations and actual practice.
Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012c, Core i7 2700K@3.50Ghz, 8GB Ram
Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc. | | Back to Top | |
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KennethKen
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2570
| Posted 8/31/2013 10:00 PM (GMT -6) | |
Christopher Smith said...
Here's the funniest example. Ranges are set to "Advanced."
High G on Bb trumpet is still okay. Maynard Ferguson, anyone?
High Cb (Bnat) on trombone is not! I could play that on BASS trombone when I was 17, never mind tenor. And as any brass player knows, playing a high Cb is easier than playing a high B natural. Actually playing most high flats is easier than their enharmonic sharps. Must be something in our early childhood programming.
Windows 7 Pro (64 bit), Finale 2012c, Core i7 2700K@3.50Ghz, 8GB Ram
Brass music, Woodwind Music, Concert Band Music, CDs, etc. | | Back to Top | |
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