MakeMusic Forum

Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help

MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Master Tool Palette selection is broken

Forum Quick Jump

[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 1/13/2016 12:53 PM (GMT -6)

1. Press and hold Command-Option-Control.

2. Click on any part of the document.

3. The Master Tool Palette appears.

4. Type a number.

5. Press Return or Enter.

6. The tool corresponding to the number typed is highlighted in the Main Tool Palette.

7. But the new tool is not active. The tool active when calling the Master Tool Palette remains active.

If this is your preferred method for switching tools, then your work slows to a crawl.

Yes, I've reported this to MakeMusic Tech Support. They say they know of the bug and are working to fix it.

I'm posting today to ask if anyone knows of a work-around.

Thanks for listening.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408

Posted 1/13/2016 12:55 PM (GMT -6)

That seems to me a complicated way to select a tool. I have mine programmed on F-keys so they just require one stroke.

Bill

Finale 2014.5 (all versions since 1.0)
Finally made the move from my trusty 2011c
Staff Paper and #1 Blackwing Pencil with eraser
OS 10.9.4 on one, 10.10.3 on another

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 1/13/2016 1:09 PM (GMT -6)

My point is that the feature—put there because the MakeMusic software devs thought it useful—is broken.

If the way you work—and have worked for years—is taken away from you, then your workflow is crippled. It doesn't matter that other people find a different method more efficient.

For example, imagine being forced to use Simple Entry if you're a whiz at Speedy Entry—or vice versa.

So, Bill, while I do appreciate you taking the time to reply, what I need is help with a solution rather than a suggestion that I should change how I work.

All best,

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408

Posted 1/13/2016 1:43 PM (GMT -6)

Your steps work properly for me in 2014.5 but my OS is 10.9 because I still occasionally work in Finale 2011.

Bill

Finale 2014.5 (all versions since 1.0)
Finally made the move from my trusty 2011c
Staff Paper and #1 Blackwing Pencil with eraser
OS 10.9.4 on one, 10.10.3 on another

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 1/13/2016 1:45 PM (GMT -6)

Good to know that this is related to El Capitan, primarily because shoring up the last bit of incompatibility between OS X 10.11 and 2014.5 is at the top of the devs' fix-it list.

Thanks for pointing this out, Bill, and also for taking the time to test it.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408

Posted 1/13/2016 3:37 PM (GMT -6)

This doesn't help you, but I also checked 2014.5 on OS 10.10 and it worked, so the problem looks to be specific to OS 10.11.

Bill

Finale 2014.5 (all versions since 1.0)
Finally made the move from my trusty 2011c
Staff Paper and #1 Blackwing Pencil with eraser
OS 10.9.4 on one, 10.10.3 on another

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 1/13/2016 3:38 PM (GMT -6)

Well, this is what I get for living on the bleeding edge of technology (translation: I'm a geek/nerd).

^_^

Thanks, Bill.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Peter Thomsen
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331

Posted 1/13/2016 3:46 PM (GMT -6)

Bill Stevens said...
Your steps work properly for me in 2014.5 but my OS is 10.9 because I still occasionally work in Finale 2011…

The steps do not work properly for me in 10.9.5 …

As described by Gregg Sewell, the Main Tool Palette indeed highlights the tool corresponding to the number typed in the field, but the new tool is not active.
The tool active when calling the Master Tool Palette remains active.

If you e. g. begin with the Selection Tool active, and then try to switch to the Articulation Tool via the Master Tool Palette, then the Selection Tool will remain active.
- Even if the Articulation Tool icon gets highlighted on the Main Tool Palette.

Peter

Mac Finale, 2012c, 2014d & 2014.5, Dolet 6.6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Bill Stevens
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 5408

Posted 1/13/2016 4:23 PM (GMT -6)

Oh, sorry Gregg. Peter is right. I was too hasty in thinking it was working when it changed on the palette.

Bill

Finale 2014.5 (all versions since 1.0)
Finally made the move from my trusty 2011c
Staff Paper and #1 Blackwing Pencil with eraser
OS 10.9.4 on one, 10.10.3 on another

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 1/14/2016 6:14 AM (GMT -6)

Gregg Sewell said...
I'm posting today to ask if anyone knows of a work-around.

Since Finale has been re-written in Cocoa, it responds much better to OS X's built-in keyboard shortcut handling. You can setup keyboard shortcuts for any menu item in Finale in OS X System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts.

Tip: Finale uses the same name for several different menu items, so you sometimes need to specify the menu path thus: "Tools->Text".

The advantage of using OS X for keyboard shortcuts is that they will work in all versions of Finale, and in all documents. However, if you switch away to another app and then back, some shortcuts stop responding until you have clicked on the menubar, due to a "focus" bug in 2014 (d and .5).

"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 1/14/2016 6:36 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks, Wiggy.

I know about OS-level keyboard shortcuts as well as third-party macro makers such as Keyboard Maestro. One of my co-workers has almost 100 KM shortcuts that do far more than call a menu item, such as rebeaming, setting a range of measures to beat spacing, etc. That's likely the route I'll go.

It's just hard to re-train all that muscle memory, you know? I want to get back what I'm used to (and who doesn't?).

*sighs*

But technology marches ever onward....

Hey, I appreciate all the responses to this thread.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Blatboy
Earthling

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 39

Posted 1/18/2016 6:22 PM (GMT -6)

I'm with you on this Gregg. I'm running OSX 10.10.5 and have the same issue.

Yes, there are other ways to do it, but I prefer the one I know...and it's wicked fast going between tools using the Master Tool Palette technique.

I have a colleague who has gone back to 2014.3 due to this.

I, on the other hand, have to choose between 2014.3 that doesn't work with my sound card but I have my Master Tool Palette situation, or 2014.5 which finally works with my sound card but no MTP situation.

I'll send a note to tech support.

Finale 2012c.r13
Mac Pro early 2008 "octacore"
OSX 10.9.3
--
http://www.jwalterhawkes.com
http://www.blatboy.com

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 1/18/2016 7:41 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks, Blatboy. I discussed this with tech-support as well. The more often they hear it, the more likely we are to get a fix sooner rather than later.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Blatboy
Earthling

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 39

Posted 1/20/2016 11:07 AM (GMT -6)

Note sent to and incident now open with Make Music. I hope it helps.

And just for clarification (not that it matters that much) my colleague went back to 2012, not 2014.3, since he's running El Capitan, and 2014 doesn't seem to play well with his system in El Capitan. Guess I'll wait till this bug gets fixed to upgrade my OS....

Finale 2014.5
Mac Pro early 2008 "octacore"
OSX 10.10.5
--
http://www.jwalterhawkes.com
http://www.blatboy.com

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 3/21/2016 1:17 PM (GMT -6)

Just checking in to see if anyone knows of any progress on this.

I know the dev team wouldn't/doesn't report on "how things are coming along," but hope springs eternal in my little engraver's heart.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Blatboy
Earthling

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 39

Posted 3/21/2016 1:49 PM (GMT -6)

Just for giggles, I loaded up 2014.5 on my system. No updates. Bug still there...

Finale 2014.5
Mac Pro early 2008 "octacore"
OSX 10.10.5
--
http://www.jwalterhawkes.com
http://www.blatboy.com

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 3/21/2016 1:52 PM (GMT -6)

*sighs*

Thanks, Blatboy.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 3/21/2016 3:42 PM (GMT -6)

I have changed my "muscle memory" within Finale, and other apps, loads of times. I have changed the keyboard shortcut keys that I use for the same tools. It doesn't take that long to re-learn new steps. Your brain is much more flexible and resilient than a computer.

As said, OS X already provides app-wide keyboard shortcuts for any menu item, not just the tools. And you could use the same key-press combinations, if you wanted, e.g. Command Ctrl shift 6 for Simple Entry.

If I were in charge of MM I would remove the Master Tool Palette feature. (To cries of outrage.

) Are the shortcuts document specific? OK, you can use the dialog (or could) to select a tool, but it's easy to change to a new workflow. In the nearly four months since this thread started, anyone could easily have learnt a new way of selecting tools.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.3)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 3/21/2016 4:09:21 PM (GMT-5)

Blatboy
Earthling

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 39

Posted 3/21/2016 3:49 PM (GMT -6)

It's not document specific. It's global...

Finale 2014.5
Mac Pro early 2008 "octacore"
OSX 10.10.5
--
http://www.jwalterhawkes.com
http://www.blatboy.com

Blatboy
Earthling

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 39

Posted 3/21/2016 4:17 PM (GMT -6)

...and why remove it when it's not hurting anything, and there are still a lot of folks that depend on it? I started using it after I switched from Windows (around 2002) as the tools weren't assigned to function keys.

It's a bug. It doesn't look as though it's being depreciated. I'll at least wait until the next update before making any brash moves to... "change." hahah. I've got enough computers still running Yosemite that I'm cool for a while at least.

Finale 2014.5
Mac Pro early 2008 "octacore"
OSX 10.10.5
--
http://www.jwalterhawkes.com
http://www.blatboy.com

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 3/21/2016 4:52 PM (GMT -6)

Wiggy, I too have reworked my muscle memory a great number of times.

Apps change, sometimes for the better, sometimes not. And we must change with them, like that or not.

Should MM decide to remove this feature, I'll move on, of course. As it stands today, it's a broken feature. And broken features should be repaired, I think. Or removed. I'd simply like for MM to do something—anything—about this little bit of broken code instead of leaving it in limbo.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.2
FInale 2014.5 7098

Post Edited (Gregg Sewell) : 3/21/2016 4:57:55 PM (GMT-5)

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 3/22/2016 4:18 AM (GMT -6)

Blatboy said...
...and why remove it when it's not hurting anything, and there are still a lot of folks that depend on it?

First of all, I'm not MakeMusic and have no power to affect the program's architecture. I just said what I would do if I were.

The current peerless state of Finale's user interface is EXACTLY a result of "why remove it?". Different features and interfaces have been lumped on to existing structures, so there are several unnecessary ways of doing the same thing and some really hideous UX. MM is a small company with limited resources. EVERY line of code in the program costs time and money, even if it isn't being revised or rewritten. If Apple said "why remove it?", then you'd be paying extra for the SCSI ports and floppy drives, and developers would still be writing PPC code for Intel machines.

Finale could do with many parts of its UI being streamlined -- by which I mean several components removed in favour of a smaller number of new methods (without any loss of function, of course!).

Yes, I agree: broken parts of the app should be fixed or removed. In this case, where alternatives abound, I favour removed.

However, this particular vestige is hardly the most notorious of the broken features. While MM does listen and respond to the collective user complaints, we all know that MM doesn't rush out a new release in response to every forum post.

"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.3)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Wiggy) : 3/22/2016 4:21:58 AM (GMT-5)

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 3/22/2016 7:36 AM (GMT -6)

Wiggy, I couldn't agree more with you. Finale attempts to be too many things to too many types of musicians. I've long thought there should be an app that's dedicated to being a composer's workbench, another for engravers, another for copyists, and so on.

I guess I'm like everyone else in the sense that I'm in favor of change, just Not in My Back Yard. NIMBY holds too many parts of our world back.

But I digress. I appreciate your input, not just here but on the forum in general. I don't know of another end user who's more responsive than you are.*

Best,

Gregg

*No, it's not sucking up because I have no favor to ask at the end of the compliment.... ^_^

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.3
FInale 2014.5 7098

bartvisser
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2001
Total Posts : 10

Posted 3/23/2016 2:46 PM (GMT -6)

Hi,

I've mentioned this problem (on this forum and to customer support). I think Make Music is aware of the problem. Hopefully they'll fix it.

I've tried a workaround via Keyboard Meastro but on my system at least, it doesn't let me ask for input and then use it to select a tool (the KM developer said it had something to do with certain apps not taking back focus after using an KM dialog). So in the end I've created a JW Lua-script that asks for a number and than selects the corresponding tool. If it helps I'm happy to share it.

All the best,

Bart

Gregg Sewell
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 131

Posted 3/23/2016 3:24 PM (GMT -6)

Bartvisser, I also use KM.

Taking a cue from Wiggy (see above for his patience with me ^_~), I've begun the process of learning a new way of doing things.

My way—absolutely not necessarily good for anyone else—is to set up separate shortcuts for each tool. Control-E for Expressions, Control-A for Articulations, and so forth.

This, of course, may be less than helpful to you, but I offer it on the slim chance that you might find it useful.

Gregg

iMac
2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
OS X 10.11.3
FInale 2014.5 7098

Forum Information

Currently it is Tuesday, December 19, 2023 8:14 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual